Traffic arrests

[swiven]

If you were arrested for failing to pay the ticket on a non-DWI traffic violation, do you need to get a certified copy of anything?

The 2 cases are as follows:
(a) failed to pay inspection sticker ticket, was arrested, paid fine, was released.
(b) failed to pay speeding ticket, was arrested, paid tickets, was released.

Reading the form, they are arrests, so need to be reported under criminal history. However, nether offense is a bar to issuance of a CHL, so the disposition of the cases should be irrelevant.

If you do think "a certified copy of judgment and sentence" is needed, from where (e.g. police department, local court system, etc.) do you think it should be obtained?

Thanks for your help.

[CHL/LEO]

Technically speaking, when you are issued a ticket that is considered an arrest.

[KBCraig]

Technically speaking, when you are issued a ticket that is considered an arrest.

Technically speaking, every traffic stop is an arrest, ticket or not.

[seamusTX]

The instructions for the CHL application say to list any arrest for which you were fingerprinted and photographed.

- Jim

[txinvestigator]

If you were arrested for failing to pay the ticket on a non-DWI traffic violation, do you need to get a certified copy of anything?

The 2 cases are as follows:
(a) failed to pay inspection sticker ticket, was arrested, paid fine, was released.
(b) failed to pay speeding ticket, was arrested, paid tickets, was released.

Reading the form, they are arrests, so need to be reported under criminal history. However, nether offense is a bar to issuance of a CHL, so the disposition of the cases should be irrelevant.

If you do think "a certified copy of judgment and sentence" is needed, from where (e.g. police department, local court system, etc.) do you think it should be obtained?

Thanks for your help.

Call DPS.

[brewster]

Not that you guys need to be lawyers to express an opinion on here, but you guys are way off.

A traffic stop is not an arrest, technically or non-technically.

A traffic stop is temporary detainment, not an arrest. You are detained for a period of time for a peace officer to assess a potential violation, determine its severity, and issue a citation if he or she sees fit. The officer also has the discretionary authority to let a person go. A citation is not an arrest. It is a notice to appear in court for something a peace officer has witnessed or determined through observed evidence (accidents, etc.). If the situation warrants, you can even have handcuffs put on you during questioning for the officer's safety or if the likelihood of an arrest is probable. That is not an arrest either. You may also be let go after such questioning, but that is not an arrest. That is detainment.

Even if you sit in the back of a police car with cuffs on while they run your plates, license number or whatever, you are not under arrest until you are read your rights, taken into custody, and driven downtown. Smile for the mugshot. Anything less is a temporary inconvenience, and that applies to all of us.

[atxgun]

Search for other posts by me, I've asked similar questions but was told tickets don't matter, only Class A & B mis. where you were "arrested" meaning photographed and finger printed.

For one I didn't you you could truely be arrested for having an expired inspection sticker. In my case I wasn't at any rate.

Hopefully brwester is right and everyone else is full of EDIT.

I guess I'll find out 3mos + Nov 11 when I take the class. Honestly my biggest fear is getting my residence history straight

[brewster]

I agree with the two posts before mine. Call DPS and make sure there is no grey area. An arrest issued for class C misdemeanors probably won't matter. Anything issued on a ticket and handled through a municipal court will most likely be a class C only, and if you were arrested, it's because you either failed to appear or pay the fine.

I seriously doubt this will prevent you from getting a CHL. But call to be on the safe side just to make sure.

Enjoy the class. You can either have a really good instructor or a crappy one. The ideal one is one that balances the law, safety, thought-provoking discussions, and a little bit of humor.

Good luck and keep us posted on when you get it; I'm sure your questions will be asked by those in the future and your threads will come in handy.

[seamusTX]

It's not relevant to the original question, but a traffic stop is an arrest. Google Atwater v. Lago Vista.

- Jim

[Charles L. Cotton]

TexasCHLforum Rules:

2. No personal attacks on other members - NONE! We can be respectful even in disagreement. If you’re talking about the person rather than the issue, then the post will be deleted.

[brewster]

Again, I must disagree. Atwater v. City of Lago Vista dealt with the constitutionality of arrests for fine-only misdemeanors, as well as how it applied the fourth amendment. The majority opinion of the Supreme Court said the following:
“(the officer) was authorized (though not required) to make a custodial arrest without balancing costs and benefits or determining whether Atwater's arrest was in some sense necessary.�

Basically, if a person is not a threat to themselves or others and is committing a minor offense, why clog up your jails? The officer has the latitude to make that decision, which is an arrest. The arrest might also be the wrong decision, but that was the cop's choice to make. If he was right, no problem. If he was wrong, then there may be consequences. The arrest did not occur when she was pulled over, it happened afterward. Atwater clearly went to jail because the cop was a hothead, but that's not the issue we're discussing. If being pulled over automatically constitutes an arrest, then why would it reference the discretion an officer has to make an arrest after assessing the situation?

It should be noted that Atwater was arrested and taken to jail, booked, photographed. This was the basis for going to court. The entire argument was that somebody not wearing a seatbelt shouldn't go to jail if they were only committing an offense that required a citation. Regardless of the court's opinion on that issue, there was a clear distinction between arresting her or not arresting her. If she had just been given a ticket, it would have been a temporary detainment, and not an arrest.

If we are splitting hairs on symantics, then I suppose you would define "custodial arrest" vs. "non-custodial arrest". Since one simple definition of arrest is to stop, I guess you could argue that all traffic tickets are given during a temporary stop. In all legal references and court cases, however, I would seriously doubt that anyone reading the word "arrest" would ask, is this custodial or non-custodial?

[seamusTX]

I have nothing further to say because it is irrelevant to the original question that was asked in this thread.

- Jim

[brewster]

Seamus, I agree with you there. At the same time, defining being pulled over as an arrest didn't address his question either. His question was well beyond that occurance and how it would affect his CHL eligibility. I would hate to see anyone think they can't get a CHL because they believe getting pulled over constitutes an arrest record. Reading this thread might lead some to believe that, and for others, it wouldn't. For the easily discouraged, that might be all it takes.

[txinvestigator]

Even if you sit in the back of a police car with cuffs on while they run your plates, license number or whatever, you are not under arrest until you are read your rights, taken into custody, and driven downtown. Smile for the mugshot. Anything less is a temporary inconvenience, and that applies to all of us.

Reading of the rights is not required in an arrest situation.

[Snake Doctor]

Even if you sit in the back of a police car with cuffs on while they run your plates, license number or whatever, you are not under arrest until you are read your rights, taken into custody, and driven downtown. Smile for the mugshot. Anything less is a temporary inconvenience, and that applies to all of us.

Reading of the rights is not required in an arrest situation.

+1... True words.