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John Correia says if you're still shooting iron sights in 2023 then you're "Gun Amish".

So I'm planning to get some handgun optics for my EDC, and I welcome the insights of y'all who've already gone down this path. As I get older, I'm having a harder time seeing my front sight, and my progressive lens bifocals force me to tilt up and look out the bottom of the glasses every time I shoot.
Yes, I know I can get glasses that have the focal point in the right spot - but in the army we learned to 'train the way you fight'. If I ain't gonna be wearing them in every day wear, then I'm not gonna be wearing them when I need them.

First question: do you recommend red dots or green dots?
Second question: are there any features that yours has that you like (or features that you wish you'd gotten on it)?

i just got a gx4 TORO "rmsc footprint" and am learning asking the same questions etc

first it'll depend what footprint your pistol has. There are "adapter plates" to adapt some other footprint sight to your pistol's footprint/mount type but that raises the whole thing higher

so far i decided on
native rmsc footprint mounted optic without any adapter plate
preferably short enough & no "built-in rear iron sight on the optic" so i can use my dark diamond pyramid sights to co-witness or if battery dies
green dot (said to be better with astigmatism older eyes etc)
prefer one that has a battery tray versus removing the optic to replace battery then re-zeroing it each battery change

two types of batteries seem to dominate the market

so theres some for $90 that use the button computer battery & i heard you'll change it every couple months, or there's $400 ones with the tray and EPS or something specifically for carry so every jostle doesn't turn it on, but they seem to sit too high for my dark diamond iron sight co-witnessing

so i'll follow this thread too

I just recently got into reflex hand gun sights. I had no handguns milled for a red dot and didn't want to alter any unless I was sure I would be happy. I found an optics ready 9mm made for Stoeger, the STR 9 for Cheap! $150 after rebate. It came with 5 base plates with screws. I did some searches for decent RD's that weren't high dollar high end brands and found one made by Sightron, the SRS-2. A little less than 200 bucks. I joined a red dot forum to elicit some opinions explaining I am in the experimental phase and don't want to spend ½ my social security check. I just got flak for not looking at EOtech, Vortex, Trigicon, Holosuns, etc . I got it and mounted it on the STR and was pleased. I think I posted about it. The snobs on the RD forum never heard of Sightron tells me they are idiots elitist. Sightron makes high end scopes with very good reviews. I also ended up with a SCCY DVG 1 with a Riton MPRD 2. I was please with my shooting results using the RD.

I only have a couple
Both Holosun optics

1 has a single red dot (shake awake, so no need to turn it on when needed)
1 has a chevron instead of a dot as well as a circle around it (also shake awake)

The circle helps with your presentation, ideally you only see the chevron and if you see any part of the circle, you adjust your hold until you only see the chevron (Holosun 507c-x2-acss — if I remember properly)

1 of mine is mounted on a plate you add after you remove your sight (www.outerimpact.com)

Happy shooting!

Thanks teamless, I'm leaning toward holosun myself now as i learned the gx4 can use it without an adapter plate, right now i'm reading reviews to decide, but one reviewer removed a holosun to use a cheaper cylee because his battery died fast on a certain holosun model, but that was before their eps model ... so still reading/researching

gx4 has two removable pins, allowing the use of either rmsc or modified rmsc (holosun K ) with no adapter plate and no modification to the slide other than removing the two rear pins (but on hellcat you have to grind off two rear rmsc "recoil" studs that stick up to make it a "modified rmsc" "K" mount (Or you can use an adapter plate below it that raises it higher

looks like i need
$100 iron sight upgrade
$500 optics green dot
= $600
for my $300 pistol
lol
but i really like this GX4 so I bought two, one regular 13 round pocket carry with pyramid sights,
one gx4 TORO for the optic sight & dark pyramid (rear dark pyramid allows room for optic where standard pyramid hangs too far forward & doesn't) with 15 round mag baseplate for owb or crossdraw
both got Lakeline ported barrels, one gold for the BBQ gun, and one stainless (but shouldda got black for that one) https://lakelinellc.com/taurus-pistol- ... cessories/

Way easier to carry than the glock 26 I pocket carried for many years.

There's other "footprints" too like RMR and others, so that's the first thing to figure out, what your EDC pistol's footprint accepts

I"m leaning toward green chevron surrounded by green circle, with a solar panel on top to help battery life,
but i may end up with eps carry https://holosun.com/index/product/detail/id/221.html
and it must have a ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENT bluetooth adrenaline brain sensor to know when I bump something the shake awake should stay off versus when I really really need it to WAKE UP Wish they made that feature

the chevron models are "Vulcan Reticle" but may be discontinued ??? and I think that's what I want anyway https://holosun.com/products/reflex-sight/507.html
green
not sure if it's HE or HS but
Holosun HE507C-GR-X2 Green Dot Reflex Sight, ACSS Vulcan Reticle, Black, HS507C-GR-X2-ACSS

red
Holosun HS507C-X2 Reflex Red Dot Sight, ACSS Vulcan Reticle, Black, HS507C-X2-ACSS

i'll probably come to my senses & instead of spending $500 and buy this or the cylee or the $89 one I can buy lots of batteries for the difference in $500 versus $89 or $169 https://www.amazon.com/Viridian-Shield- ... hdGY&psc=1

or
https://www.amazon.com/GOWUTAR-Compact- ... 118&sr=8-2

I got my first pistol optic a few months ago. I bought a new Glock MOS model and the Holosun fit it with no adapter plate. I agree that this is a much better option.

I went with a green dot instead of red. I had always heard green is easier to se and it worked for me. I have to admit that this may be my expectation causing a confirmation bias though. The reticle is switchable between a dot, a circle, or a circle in a dot. I generally leave it in the circle but the dot in circle also works well. Both resulted in my groups tightening up noticeably.

I also chose one option you did not mention. Mine is not truly battery operated. I am not sure if it is a capacitor or a battery, but it has a photocell on it so that it never needs new batteries. It is supposed to be good for 2000 hours with a full charge and every time you use it the charge tops off. With the right holster design, the photocell gets charged if you are carrying it openly or letting it sit under a light when you are not wearing it.

srothstein wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:02 pm I got my first pistol optic a few months ago. I bought a new Glock MOS model and the Holosun fit it with no adapter plate. I agree that this is a much better option.

I went with a green dot instead of red. I had always heard green is easier to se and it worked for me. I have to admit that this may be my expectation causing a confirmation bias though. The reticle is switchable between a dot, a circle, or a circle in a dot. I generally leave it in the circle but the dot in circle also works well. Both resulted in my groups tightening up noticeably.

I also chose one option you did not mention. Mine is not truly battery operated. I am not sure if it is a capacitor or a battery, but it has a photocell on it so that it never needs new batteries. It is supposed to be good for 2000 hours with a full charge and every time you use it the charge tops off. With the right holster design, the photocell gets charged if you are carrying it openly or letting it sit under a light when you are not wearing it.

What’s the model # of that optic?

Here are two good articles that I think Mr. cotton had posted a year or so ago.

https://lockedback.com/results-4-year-h ... -dynamics/
http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/7dc128_c8 ... 3fce6f.pdf

carlson1 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:40 pm Here are two good articles that I think Mr. cotton had posted a year or so ago.

https://lockedback.com/results-4-year-h ... -dynamics/
http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/7dc128_c8 ... 3fce6f.pdf

thanks, lots of good info there, the pdf chart showing some electronic failures of devices slide mounted undergoing the conditions a slide goes through isn't super surprising, but it's surprising they don't all fail lol
the pdf has charts/info near the bottom that confirm my decision to go ahead & get a reflex sight now

In short:

Quality modern red dots are durable
Handgun red dots allow the focus to remain on target
Handgun red dots improve accuracy

I have several red (and green) reflex sights mounted on pistols, rifles, and a shotgun. I'm sold on their utility and speed of acquisition. That's why you're seeing them appearing very rapidly in LEO holsters.

I started out with a Trijicon RMR and then transitioned to Holosuns.

I use the plain dot reticle on them all (I find the circle and circle/dot too "busy" for my eyes).

My latest acquisition was the Vulcan model with the chevron surrounded by a very large circle that you don't see unless you aren't seeing the reticle. In that case the segment of the circle that you do see helps you immediately correct your hold to find the reticle.

I still use cowitnessed tritium iron sights on all my guns as well "just in case."

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:47 pm

srothstein wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:02 pm I got my first pistol optic a few months ago. I bought a new Glock MOS model and the Holosun fit it with no adapter plate. I agree that this is a much better option.

I went with a green dot instead of red. I had always heard green is easier to se and it worked for me. I have to admit that this may be my expectation causing a confirmation bias though. The reticle is switchable between a dot, a circle, or a circle in a dot. I generally leave it in the circle but the dot in circle also works well. Both resulted in my groups tightening up noticeably.

I also chose one option you did not mention. Mine is not truly battery operated. I am not sure if it is a capacitor or a battery, but it has a photocell on it so that it never needs new batteries. It is supposed to be good for 2000 hours with a full charge and every time you use it the charge tops off. With the right holster design, the photocell gets charged if you are carrying it openly or letting it sit under a light when you are not wearing it.

What’s the model # of that optic?

yes please tell us a model #
some holosun say "solar failsafe" other holosun models are scs- solar charging system I guess

My dilemma is
my budget wants : $129
SOME similar features to one below but $400 cheaper for red than green
ADE APOLLO(RD3-030 PRO) 50000 Hours SOLAR POWERED+SENSOR ACTIVATED Red Dot ... but i'd prefer green to red
https://www.opticsplanet.com/ade-advanc ... sight.html
if i want green $500
https://holosun.com/products/reflex-sig ... n-mrs.html
540nm Green Super LED with Holosun’s MRS (Multi-Reticle System) and uses a 1620 battery which provides up to 50k hour battery life, Solar Failsafe, and Shake Awake
so like some of my Ham radios I'll probably spend the $500 and "Buy once Cry Once"

I have a Vortex Strikefire 2 on my AR. It has a switch that goes to either red or green. I found that I like the red better during bright daylight and the green actually works better for me at low light. As of yet, I don't have anything other than iron sights on my pistols

Just some of my thoughts.

• You did not list what pistol you are using. Might be worth posting so all options can be shared.

• I've been shooting red dots since January 2021. I wanted to get my feet wet too as I was having trouble focusing my eyes on sights, especially at distance and at night.

• I decided to buy a separate slide and got it milled for an RMR footprint. At the time, I couldn't find a slide already milled (pandemic and supply chain issues) and I didn't want to make my stock slide permanent. Plus I had Robar do some custom work on my gun and wanted to be able to keep it "stock". No regrets with my decision, especially since Robar has since closed shop and I can easily swap slides so I have the best of both.

• I would not dismiss the MOS Glock's. I have one but did not use the stock plates and went with one from C&H Precision. Not one single issue with it.

• Since switching to a PMO (Pistol Mounted Optic since Red Dots are not necessarily "red"), I've taken a total of 6 training classes with 1 being a 5 day Gunsite 250 class specifically for PMO's last summer. The first class I took in late January 2021 was a learning experience as I had not had a lot of time behind the dot other than one range session and a lot of dry fire. At this point, I've very comfortable with shooting PMO's and have them on 3 of my Glocks and plan on adding a 4'th, either on my Langdon 92 or buying a Compact 92 with a PMO on it.

• No experience with Green PMO's but I do have a Green Lit Trijicon 1-4X LPVO on my AR and my experience mimics what has been previously mentioned here. I pick up the Red easily enough during the day and it's what I had on my 3 PMO guns.

• I would not skimp and buy a cheap PMO. It could lead to a bad experience and turn you off. That being said, I didn't want to spend the money on a Trijicon and went with the Holosun. I've heard nothing but good things about Holosun, other than rants from people who hate it because it's made in China. But the biggest selling point for me is it has a battery try and does not have to be unmounted to replace and have to be rezero'd. I have had nothing but a good experience with the 3 Holosun's I have.

• My next PMO is going to be one with an enclosed emitter. I want to give it a try and for me, the one positive will be cleaning as the open emmiter optics are like cup catching all manners of dots. Not to big of a deal as I have an electric computer blower for the case and keyboard that I use regularly for blowing out all the lint. But keep in mind you want to do maintenance on it to keep it clean. Might sound like a big negative but it's not really a big deal. I've shot it both full of lint and full of water (one of the things they run you through at Gunsite)

• In the past 2+ years, I've had just one bad experience with a dot. And it was with one I had picked up from Suarez International. Right before Glock came up with an MOS version of the 43x/48, I bought a custom package from Suarez where they milled one of their slides for an optic along with a comp. I had a bunch of trouble with the optic coming loose. It even came off one time at the range and the optic flew back and hit me on the head and landed hard on the concrete floor. Another pro for the Holosun, it still kept ticking. Took a couple of trips back to Suarez to get resolve. It was not a good experience with them.

• And probably my most important thought. TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING. There is nothing better to get you used to shooting a PMO gun than lots of repetitions done during a multi day training class. Specifically one geared towards shooting a PMO. Not everyone has the time or money to go to Gunsite, but they are several classes that are occasionally offered in the DFW are, or within a reasonable driving distance, that can get you up to speed quickly. A good instructor will show you tips and tricks to help get you used to the dot.

I'm sure I've missed a few good points. Training and lots of repetitions/dry firing/presenting the gun to acquire the dot has really helped me. Some of the things that came out in my Gunsite class are things that have never really come up before in other classes I've taken. Like shooting the dot with it full of water and also with it turned off and using your irons. Hope this helps.

Thanks
"I would not skimp and buy a cheap PMO"
I emptied my shopping cart of cheap ones & started over lol
Features:
The ADE brand looks ok with solar panel, for $129, but having to remove the whole thing to change battery every couple months ...
I'm favoring Holosun too now because you said "battery tray"
YOUR COMMENT " NEXT ... ENCLOSED EMITTER"
Makes me favor EPS (Enclosed Pistol Sight) model over the 507k or 407k open ones
the Solar Failsafe, makes me favor the EPS MRSmodels (Multiple Reticle System models have the solar failsafe feature, the EPS 6moa does not)
I'll probably order this for my Taurus TORO rmsc type mount
https://freedomgorilla.com/collections/ ... r-failsafe
I wish they had the "EPS" model with "solar failsafe" with the vulcan reticle "ACSS"( the chevron vulcan thingy) but that's probably a future model
https://freedomgorilla.com/collections/ ... an-reticle
below is a list of all Holosun brand ones that fit my Taurus Gx4 TORO
https://freedomgorilla.com/collections/ ... descending