Concerned over cuffed and stuffed

[PSLOwner]

Yes, a vigilante was able to detect my gun but printing is NOT a misdemeanor. The flashing is relevant to the story because I believe that is when the LEO made the dicision to place me under arrest.

So if the wind blows your shirt up you would consider that intentionally failing to conceal? I give up.

Unless you're Marilyn Monroe, being exposed by the wind is not intentional, but it is a failure to conceal.

If someone saw your gun when you sat in an open back chair, think about how you can conceal better. If you flash your gun and have to adjust your clothes when you get out of your truck, think about how you can conceal better. If you print so bad a casual observer can guess you carry a gun, think about how you can conceal better. It's not required by the law, but it's smart to avoid recklessly or knowingly failing to conceal.

"It's not required by the law,"

Actually, it IS required by law but your point is well taken. If you read my earlier post I had asked for advice on a different rig. Perhaps a smaller gun / different holster.

PM9 in a mini super tuck will take care of that issue for you.

Sadly, my closet is getting full of very LONG button down sports shirts.

[MojoTexas]

Yes, the Texas law says that intentional or reckless "printing" is a crime, but it's still subjective. If you get arrested (as handog did), you will need to convince a judge or magistrate, or possibly even a jury (if it goes that far) that you had made a good faith effort to conceal your handgun, so that the average person would have no idea that you're carrying.

Fortunately for handog, he was able to do just that. He still had to spend some time sitting in a jail cell, and had to go several days without his CHL and weapon.

Still, for me, I choose to just learn from his lesson and take measures to ensure that if I'm carrying, that there's no way anyone will know short of a metal detector.

Just my two cents...
MojoTexas

[boomerang]

reckless "printing" is a crime

Please cite that law.

[PSLOwner]

reckless "printing" is a crime

Please cite that law.

I remember them telling us that in our CHL class, but darned if I can find in online via google. But that is my recollection as well.

[03Lightningrocks]

I was under the impression that accidentally exposing your firearm was not a crime. Case in point....this afternoon I was in Wally World with my daughter. I reached up to get something and when I did my shirt lifted up enough that my daughter could see my gun. I realized it almost immediately and corrected the situation. Because of this thread I found myself feeling somewhat paranoid that a cop was going to come zipping up and gun me down. I think it is pure unadulterated garbage how those yahoos in Roundrock treated the OP. I can understand them wanting to check his status but this garbage about hitting the panic button is not a good sign folks. Simply seeing a weapon and assuming he is out to kill someone is as wrong as them spotting him holding a bottle of liquor and assuming he was drunk.

[srothstein]

reckless "printing" is a crime

Please cite that law.

I remember them telling us that in our CHL class, but darned if I can find in online via google. But that is my recollection as well.

They told you wrong. Reckless is not a crime, only intentional is.

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

To get the printing as a crime, it is really a matter of how well the weapon prints. If it is just a slight bulge, I would say it is not a crime. If you are wearing spandex and it shows the exact outline of the weapon, I would say it is a crime. The reason I say this is that I cannot find a definition of conceal in the law (just a quick search so far0, so we have to use the common meaning. One dictionary i looked at defined it this way:

To keep from being seen, found, observed, or discovered; hide.

So, if the exact outline can be seen, I would say it can be observed or discovered and is not concealed. A slight bulge could be anything and is still concealed, in my opinion. The line is going to fall somewhere in between the two, and I cannot give a specific definition for it. Like other SCOTUS rulings, I will know it when I see it.

Obviously, what is concealed and where printing falls in the scheme of things is a matter for you, the cop, the judge, or the jury to decide. Some of us will disagree on where things fall on that line.


EDIT: I don't know why I did not think of this earlier, but the definition of concealed handgun is in the Government Code subchapter on CHLs. It clearly defines it as not openly discernible to ordinary observation. This goes right with what I was saying about the slight bulge versus the exact outline print. The outline that is clear enough to see is openly discernible while the slight bulge is not.

[03Lightningrocks]

So a shirt lifting up or the wind blowing a shirt up and exposing a weapon is not a crime. Correct???

[srothstein]

That is certainly my understanding of the law, 03LightningRocks.

[handog]

So a shirt lifting up or the wind blowing a shirt up and exposing a weapon is not a crime. Correct???

I cannot imagine a jury convicting someone if the shirt lifted or blew up. How that could be perceived as reckless, knowing or intentional. Common sense would say it was accidental. Oh, and I can just see them pulling the evidence out of the bag: an inside the waste band holster.

[MojoTexas]

So a shirt lifting up or the wind blowing a shirt up and exposing a weapon is not a crime. Correct???

I cannot imagine a jury convicting someone if the shirt lifted or blew up. How that could be perceived as reckless, knowing or intentional. Common sense would say it was accidental. Oh, and I can just see them pulling the evidence out of the bag: an inside the waste band holster.

As I said before, it would probably depend on the judge and the prosecuting attorney. If they are anti-gun, seeking re-election, and/or trying to make a point with your case, they might be able to argue that you should've known not to wear a light garment on such a windy day, etc. It's all subjective, so it really depends on how much of an issue they want to make out of your case, and how good your attorney is. You might get lucky, or you might not.

My whole point is that prevention is the best remedy, and I personally prefer to just make sure that I'm concealed so NOBODY notices.

MojoTexas

[PSLOwner]

To get the printing as a crime, it is really a matter of how well the weapon prints. If it is just a slight bulge, I would say it is not a crime. If you are wearing spandex and it shows the exact outline of the weapon, I would say it is a crime. The reason I say this is that I cannot find a definition of conceal in the law (just a quick search so far0, so we have to use the common meaning. One dictionary i looked at defined it this way:

Oh, I think a grown adult wearing spandex (outside of David Lee Roth) IS a crime.... gun or no gun.

[SwimFan85]

You can kid yourself all you want but if the cops saw your gun it wasn't concealed.

[handog]

First of all I Didn't say it was concealed when I was ordered out of my vehicle.
Secondly I'm not here to argue. Remember the judge agreed with me. No kidding

[A-R]

First of all I Didn't say it was concealed when I was ordered out of my vehicle.
Secondly I'm not here to argue. Remember the judge agreed with me. No kidding

Handog I think what most folks are trying to say is that while the judge agreed with you this time, that may not always happen and you could be in for a longer ordeal that includes a real court date etc. Thus it is best to be sure you are fully concealed and try to limit any potentional of even inadvertent or accidental unconcealing. If your shirt regularly rides up and exposes your gun while your in you're car and you usually have to pull your shirt back over your gun when you get out of your car, then you NEED to change the manner in which you carry your concealed handgun. Get larger shirts, a smaller gun, shoulder holster, pocket carry, tucked IWB holster, SmartCarry, a fanny pack - something different.

IMHO, if it happens occasionally, it's inadvertant/accidental. But if it happens often, then you should self correct to prevent it from happening again and again.

And you do realize that your gun must be concealed even in your vehicle, right? I'm sure you do, but just clarifying based on your above comment.

BTW, I'm basing some of what I'm posting on other posts I've read from you stating that you believe you were concealed in the building but when you were pulled over you could not reach down to "reconceal" your gun while in your car because you fear the cops would shoot if you reached.

[SwimFan85]

First of all I Didn't say it was concealed when I was ordered out of my vehicle.
Secondly I'm not here to argue. Remember the judge agreed with me. No kidding

If you're happy with the results, why so much complaining?