How was your fair experience?

[Hoi Polloi]

A CHL holder went before us and I overheard the police officer tell him the Old Mill and Cotton Bowl were off limits. I just reread this thread and noticed all CHLs commenting here were told the same thing. Then the light went on... every CHL is given a verbal notice that concealed carry is not allowed in the Cotton Bowl or the Old Mill restaurant. Therefore, neither building requires a 30.06 sign.

VERY good point, sir! You get the prize!

Not all were told, however. Some were only told to keep it concealed or to let the cops handle any problems.

If the Old Mill is private property, how does a public servant have authority to act for the private owner?

I'm not challenging it. If they don't want my money I won't spend any there, whether or not it's legal. I treat it the same as gun shows that post 30.06 signs. There's lots of other businesses that do want my money.

Someone was told that it is privately owned, but being at Fair Park (city property), it has not been determined if it is private property. Those aren't necessarily the same thing. You can own a building but not the land it is built on.

Even still, the DPD are there for the explicit purpose of security for what happens in and relating to the fair (are they hired off-duty? the dept supplies them? hired on duty?) so I would say that they do have the authority of the owner to express such wishes to the public.

[sjfcontrol]

Even still, the DPD are there for the explicit purpose of security for what happens in and relating to the fair (are they hired off-duty? the dept supplies them? hired on duty?) so I would say that they do have the authority of the owner to express such wishes to the public.

Really? You think the DPD officers are hired by the owner of the privately-owned Old Mill?
Doubtful, very doubtful.

[ScottDLS]

FWIW, I went to the Fair today as part of a work retreat. Since I work for Uncle Sam, I was not carrying and I was wanded just like the rest of my crew.

A CHL holder went before us and I overheard the police officer tell him the Old Mill and Cotton Bowl were off limits. I just reread this thread and noticed all CHLs commenting here were told the same thing. Then the light went on... every CHL is given a verbal notice that concealed carry is not allowed in the Cotton Bowl or the Old Mill restaurant. Therefore, neither building requires a 30.06 sign.

I had a good time and recommend going during a weekday. I only had one line and that was at Fletcher's Corny Dog stand.
Happy Trails! N

The Cotton Bowl is government property so PC 30.06 is not applicable, therefore written or oral notice notice is irrelevant.

[C-dub]

True enough Scott, but I double dog dare you to try that when there is a game going on! Just teasing. Unless a game is going on, most other times it is closed, so what's the big deal? I believe the game situation would override the city property exemption.

[ScottDLS]

True enough Scott, but I double dog dare you to try that when there is a game going on! Just teasing. Unless a game is going on, most other times it is closed, so what's the big deal? I believe the game situation would override the city property exemption.

I agree CB is off limits per 46.035 when there is a game going on. I was quite purposely making the point specifically about TXPC 30.06 which is never effective on property owned by a government entity (unless there's an official government meeting going on there). There are numerous events at stadiums that are not school or professional sporting events.

The ownerhsip of the property and improvements of the Old Mill has not been clearly established in the posts that I have seen so far, nor is it clear whether it is posted IAW 30.06. It's a stretch to construe a Dallas Police Officer at the gate of the fair has "authority or apparent authority" to act for a private company (if they do, in fact, own the property).

[BrianSW99]

It would appear that the Old Mill restaurant is indeed private property. The Dallas Central Appraisal District lists it as being owned by:

ED CAMPBELL CONCESSIONS
PO BOX 710609
DALLAS, TEXAS 753710609
DBA: OLD MILL INN AT FAIR PARK

Property Location (Certified 2010)
Address: 3611 GRAND AVE
Mapsco: 46-Q (DALLAS)

Oddly enough, it also lists it's appraised value at only $24,160.

[C-dub]

True enough Scott, but I double dog dare you to try that when there is a game going on! Just teasing. Unless a game is going on, most other times it is closed, so what's the big deal? I believe the game situation would override the city property exemption.

I agree CB is off limits per 46.035 when there is a game going on. I was quite purposely making the point specifically about TXPC 30.06 which is never effective on property owned by a government entity (unless there's an official government meeting going on there). There are numerous events at stadiums that are not school or professional sporting events.

The ownerhsip of the property and improvements of the Old Mill has not been clearly established in the posts that I have seen so far, nor is it clear whether it is posted IAW 30.06. It's a stretch to construe a Dallas Police Officer at the gate of the fair has "authority or apparent authority" to act for a private company (if they do, in fact, own the property).

Yup.

[ScottDLS]

It would appear that the Old Mill restaurant is indeed private property. The Dallas Central Appraisal District lists it as being owned by:

ED CAMPBELL CONCESSIONS
PO BOX 710609
DALLAS, TEXAS 753710609
DBA: OLD MILL INN AT FAIR PARK

Property Location (Certified 2010)
Address: 3611 GRAND AVE
Mapsco: 46-Q (DALLAS)

Oddly enough, it also lists it's appraised value at only $24,160.

Did a little research and it seems that BPP (business personal property) is appraised as above. BPP is fixtures, equipment, furniture, etc. BPP is NOT real property or "premises". This leads me to believe that Old Mill premises is owned by the City of Dallas and a 30.06 notice oral, or written would be invalid.

[BrianSW99]

It would appear that the Old Mill restaurant is indeed private property. The Dallas Central Appraisal District lists it as being owned by:

ED CAMPBELL CONCESSIONS
PO BOX 710609
DALLAS, TEXAS 753710609
DBA: OLD MILL INN AT FAIR PARK

Property Location (Certified 2010)
Address: 3611 GRAND AVE
Mapsco: 46-Q (DALLAS)

Oddly enough, it also lists it's appraised value at only $24,160.

Did a little research and it seems that BPP (business personal property) is appraised as above. BPP is fixtures, equipment, furniture, etc. BPP is NOT real property or "premises". This leads me to believe that Old Mill premises is owned by the City of Dallas and a 30.06 notice oral, or written would be invalid.

You're right. I just found it on the Dallas CAD map and the entire area within the Fair Park boundaries is owned by the City of Dallas. The Old Mill must be leasing the building from the city.

[C-dub]

Huh. So, would anyone be willing to ask the manager or owner this question? I would, but we're not going to the fair this year. Maybe an e-mail, though.

[Dragonfighter]

FWIW, I went into the Old Mill this time after walking around the whole building, no 30.06 or even an "Unlicensed possession of..." sign. I went in on the pretext of talking to the manager about a gluten free menu, no 51% sign either.

We have entered through gate 6 (by the science place). This Tuesday, there was only one security person, she was being pretty thorough. I approached her and asked if she was the supervisor, she affirmed and I was released on my "own recognizance" to check in with PD. The LEO and I laughed about it and I went on my way. Interestingly, she quit going through my girls' bags and cooler immediately upon my interaction.

BTW, can all those that responded post which gate and time of day they had their encounters? Editing old posts is fine, i intend to pull all of it after the fair and crunch it into some sort of digest.

[timdsmith72]

Went to the Fair yesterday and went in the entrance next to the DART rail station. I had my license in my hand but wasn't going to show it unless the wander found my weapon. (I was just curious to see if he would. I've heard about them completely missing it.)
Any way, he did find it and I showed him my license. He muttered under his breath, "Is that what the wand detected on your right hip there?" I said "Yes, sir."
He looked over at the station the LEO was supposed to be at but the LEO wasn't there. He then took a closer look at my license, I guess to maybe check the date, then waved me through, and waved everyone that was with me through without wanding them. (Wife, her Mom, and her Grandmother.)
Whole process took maybe a minute. Much less hassle than last year!!

[Keith B]

FWIW, I went into the Old Mill this time after walking around the whole building, no 30.06 or even an "Unlicensed possession of..." sign. I went in on the pretext of talking to the manager about a gluten free menu, no 51% sign either.

Interesting as I was told by one of the employees that they had a 30.06 or similar sign. However, if they are serving alcohol, then they have to have an 'Unlicensed possesion...' sign or a 51% sign. If they have neither, then they are in violation of TABC rules.

[The Annoyed Man]

BTW, can all those that responded post which gate and time of day they had their encounters? Editing old posts is fine, i intend to pull all of it after the fair and crunch it into some sort of digest.

Wednesday, 09/29, approx. 12:30 p.m., Gate 11 near the Chevy display on the south side of the stadium.

[Diesel42]

Same place for me, Gate 11. Wednesday, October 6, at 11:15am.

BTW, can all those that responded post which gate and time of day they had their encounters? Editing old posts is fine, i intend to pull all of it after the fair and crunch it into some sort of digest.

Wednesday, 09/29, approx. 12:30 p.m., Gate 11 near the Chevy display on the south side of the stadium.