Restaurant Robbers

[Purplehood]

Well, they probably won't go looking through the wallets right then. However, when they eventually do, now they have your address and know there are weapons to be had there.

They would find that to be an accurate assumption once they showed up. I wouldn't look for them to be walking away, however.

[drjoker]

Every time I enter a room, I take stock of everyone there and try my best to "make" or identify other fellow CHL carriers (who might come to my aid). .

Vests and Hawaiin shirts?

No, guys who have TWO (2) "wallets" in both back pockets. Fake pagers carried IN FRONT. Fanny packs with big rip cords.

Other modes of carry are very difficult to spot. That's why I'm not using the Pager Pal much anymore (see my posted pager pal review). I'm using Smartcarry now. Smartcarry prints, but it prints like an adult diaper, not a gun. If you're older, people will not suspect you have a gun, they'll just assume that you are incontinent.

[mr.72]

LoL. Incontinent. I guess I'm glad I sold my SC.

Some methods of carry can be virtually impossible to detect, including my LCP with belt clip IWB. I have a funny story I could tell to illustrate this but I won't.

[Excaliber]

Well, they probably won't go looking through the wallets right then. However, when they eventually do, now they have your address and know there are weapons to be had there.

The other potential issue is that some of these highly unstable individuals take it as a personal affront when they find an armed compliant victim. When I started police work, I lived in the Bronx. It was well known that if an LEO was caught in a robbery where the bandits searched patrons, he'd be executed when they found his badge and gun. A member of my agency found himself in this situation and wasn't carrying a gun, but did have his badge. When they found it he was marched into a bathroom stall, told he was going to be killed, and the gun was pressed to his head. Only a well timed shout of "time to go" from one of his compatriots saved the officer's life. He wasn't quite the same after that.

Preemptive action was considered to be the only viable option, even if it was ugly.

I don't know if the same mindset applies down here, but I also don't plan to find out the hard way.

[C-dub]

I'm warming up to the idea of a second wallet with fake stuff and a few bucks in it.

[karder]

LoL. Incontinent. I guess I'm glad I sold my SC.

Some methods of carry can be virtually impossible to detect, including my LCP with belt clip IWB. I have a funny story I could tell to illustrate this but I won't.

You guys would never make me. My love-hands drape perfectly over the handle of my Colt when I carry IWB. (don't be jealous!)

[Purplehood]

The other potential issue is that some of these highly unstable individuals take it as a personal affront when they find an armed compliant victim. When I started police work, I lived in the Bronx. It was well known that if an LEO was caught in a robbery where the bandits searched patrons, he'd be executed when they found his badge and gun. A member of my agency found himself in this situation and wasn't carrying a gun, but did have his badge. When they found it he was marched into a bathroom stall, told he was going to be killed, and the gun was pressed to his head. Only a well timed shout of "time to go" from one of his compatriots saved the officer's life. He wasn't quite the same after that.

Preemptive action was considered to be the only viable option, even if it was ugly.

I don't know if the same mindset applies down here, but I also don't plan to find out the hard way.

Based purely on supposition and the popular media, I always thought that LEO's were required to carry off-duty. That is not always the case?

[Keith B]

Based purely on supposition and the popular media, I always thought that LEO's were required to carry off-duty. That is not always the case?

Nope. My BIL was Chief and there were many times he didn't even carry on duty. Some of his officers did not carry depending on where/what they were doing. Others carried 24/7.

[Excaliber]

Based purely on supposition and the popular media, I always thought that LEO's were required to carry off-duty. That is not always the case?

Nope. My BIL was Chief and there were many times he didn't even carry on duty. Some of his officers did not carry depending on where/what they were doing. Others carried 24/7.

Keith B is right on. Although most agencies allow off duty carry, many officers, just like many CHL's, consider the inconvenience not worth the effort and elect to leave the gun at home - with pretty much the same results as civilians who do the same.

An officer in my agency who almost never carried off duty found himself in a bank during an armed holdup. While the bandit was inside, an officer responding to the bank alarm approached the front door. Our officer later said he was in a perfect position to take out the bad guy who he saw was preparing to attack the arriving officer. However, since he was unarmed, this was not an option. Upon opening the door, the responding officer was immediately shot in the leg by the bad guy, who proceeded to make his escape. Our officer went to the fallen officers side, identified himself, and asked for the officer's gun to give chase. The wounded officer told him in no uncertain terms to get away from him because if he was a real cop he would've had his own gun. He made the right call, and I couldn't agree more.

Our chagrined officer went to religiously carrying a .44 magnum revolver at all times off duty - for about 2 weeks, at which point he went back to never carrying off duty at all.

In life there are fast learners, slow learners, and no learners. There's not much you can do for the latter.

[dac1842]

Given the situation you presented your best weapon is your power of observation. Due to the number of actors you are outnumbered and probably out gunned. Not to mention if you decide to be the hero and see how many you can take out, you will endanger everyone else. As long as they are not becoming active shooters you should not either. If you were to start shooting the matter becomes complicated in that the public as a rule tend to panic in that situation, instead of remaing seated or diving for cover, many will stand up to run, creating a line of fire issue for you.
If they start shooting, you have a decision to make and no one can second guess you no matter what you decide. Many here will tell you what they would do, but what they mean is what they think or hope they would do. Until you have been there you dont know how you will react. Statisically most will freeze, some will run, as a rule only about 10% will react.
Dont be a hero, all the ones I know have one thing in common, they are dead. Use your head, keep your cool, sometimes doing nothing but observing is the best you can do.
Before somone else here says it thinking I am not considering it, yes by all means protect and defend yourself if you feel you are in danger.

[Salty1]

After reading this thread a few things ran through my mind. First question I asked myself is what am I carrying? During the Texas heat it is a 5 shot revolver with 6 additional rounds on a speed strip. Not sure that will be enough in a situation such as this unless the situation seriously deteriorates and they started shooting, 11 rounds with 6 thugs seems a bit short to me. My Sig 45 with a 7 +1 is better and more accurate but will require no more than 2 shot stops assuming a spare mag. Now I am thinking my 9mm, with 16 +1 and another 16 spare. Accuracy is everything in this type of scenerio, but the thugs would also no be standing still like paper targets. I do not know how I would react, although I do want to be prepared to do what has to be done, I have no intention of ever pulling my gun to save somebody elses money, a human life is a different story though, especially if it is mine or a loved ones. I just hope that I am never in the wrong place at the wrong time, sure would hate to put a lawyers kid through Harvard law school to defend me in a shooting.

[randomoutburst]

My husband I BOTH like to face the door so sometimes this can present a problem. If one of us must face away, it's always me because we both know he's more observant and aware than I am.

For me, the subject of restaurant robberies is especially disturbing because while my husband I normally don't go out to eat, I do work as a server in a restaurant. I was told I cannot carry at work so this makes me kind of queasy. I'm not old enough to carry with a CHL until next August anyway, but knowing that I can't defend myself at my job should I want to is even more upsetting when I see stories about robberies in restaurants. Obviously I'd take the path of least resistance whether I was carrying or not and just give up my cash, but I agree with all who said when they try to move you to another location the jig is up.

[texas1234]

This is a horrible situation.

First thing I do is pull my wallet and put my gun under my leg and say please dont hurt me or my family and take the money. They get the wallet. If it looks like they are going to hurt/kill someone or hurt/kill my family then I use lethal force to defend those who are going to be subject to their aggression. However, I have already made myself aware of the my surroundings and picked a table that would be best suited for this action.

I would just keep the scenario simple to a few steps. "Many a slip between the cup and the lip."

[dicion]

First thing I do is pull my wallet and put my gun under my leg "

The problem I see with drawing a gun before you decide to use it in a scenario like this is someone might sell you out to try and save their own behind.

Sad as it is, I am sure there are people out there that, if they saw you slowly pull a gun out of the robber's view in preparation to use it, would alert the robbers that you are armed, in an attempt to get 'cred' with them, and save their own behind.

There are a lot of backstabbing individuals out there that would gladly step on someone else's face if it could mean their safety in a situation like this. If you were going to draw, in preparation to possibly use it, make sure you do it outside EVERYONE's view, not just the robbers' (minus immediate family, of course)

[der Teufel]

I'm warming up to the idea of a second wallet with fake stuff and a few bucks in it.

I often do that when I'm traveling out of the country. I have a cheap cloth/velcro wallet that I found at a garage sale. I stuff several small bills into it, and put in a couple of the "fake" credit cards that I get in the mail when some outfit wants me to get their card. (Funny, haven't see so many offers for credit cards since the economy went into a dive.) I figure I'd pull it out, open it a little to show a robber that there's money in it an let him see the corners of the credit cards, then toss it one direction and run the other. My wife is in on the plan, so if she saw me pull the decoy wallet out she'd get ready to bolt. The backup plan (if I wasn't carrying a spare wallet) would be to just pull out some bills and toss them.

"Okay, okay, don't hurt me! Look, here's my wallet. Look, here's the money in it. See, here's the money. Oops, there's the money over there!"

Of course, in a packed restaurant the toss and run plan probably wouldn't work against multiple BGs. Still, they might not examine the wallets closely on the spot.