Discharged "under honorable conditions" = not "honorably"

[sugar land dave]

I was in the Navy very briefly (didn't finish boot camp). I had ear problems that I told them about when I enlisted, and the recruiting office said it was acceptable. Once I got in, they examined me and said it was not, and discharged me. I fought it, because I didn't want out, but out I went.

I can't find my copy right now, but I'm almost positive my DD214 said "Under Honorable Conditions"; however, I am positive that I received the veteran's discount.

This used to be an uncomfortable situation for me. I had family and friends that served full tours, some 20 and 30 year gigs, and I always felt I was not a vet. One of them cleared it up for me (not completely, but at least comfortably), when he told me "You volunteered to take the oath, you served honorably for as long as they were willing to let your serve. You're a vet."

I went back and dug up my DD214, but I don't know that it's going to help anything. There are two lines that concern the discharge. Line 9 says TYPE OF SEPARATION and is filled in DISCHARGED. Two lines down, it says CHARACTER OF SERVICE and is filled in HONORABLE.

When I was discharged (and I remember it well, because I fought it) the Navy called the discharge a "General Discharge - Erroneous Enlistment".

As I said earlier, I got my veteran discount.

I don't know how the recruiter got you past the MEPS health examination process. MEPS sole purpose is to qualify individuals ability and capabilities to serve. Thankfully it did not interfere with the chl process.

[Gunner4640]

Speaking of Veteran on a CHL I just renewed my Dl and I did not take DD214 or Discharge to get my renewal DL I showed my CHL which has Veteran on it and was told they will not accept it as proof of Veteran status and guess what my new Dl does not have Veteran on it.

Did you have "veteran" on your old drivers license? Are you saying that you must submit DD214 with every renewal?
I would think that once in the system, it should stay. After all, Veteran status does not change.

No my old dl did not have veteran on it. No i didn't say that you have to submit every time you get a new dl
I asked if my chl with veteran on it would work for proof and was told it did not qualify as proof.

[Gunner4640]

Speaking of Veteran on a CHL I just renewed my Dl and I did not take DD214 or Discharge to get my renewal DL I showed my CHL which has Veteran on it and was told they will not accept it as proof of Veteran status and guess what my new Dl does not have Veteran on it.

My DL has "Veteran" on it but they have omitted it from my CHL... Even though I sent in a copy of my DD214 and my *status in the system* shows I have military affiliation

That's what I thought to that my chl would be proof of Veteran status but it does not qualify as proof. Strange system, Since chl also have DL #'s on them.

[ScooterSissy]

I was in the Navy very briefly (didn't finish boot camp). I had ear problems that I told them about when I enlisted, and the recruiting office said it was acceptable. Once I got in, they examined me and said it was not, and discharged me. I fought it, because I didn't want out, but out I went.

I can't find my copy right now, but I'm almost positive my DD214 said "Under Honorable Conditions"; however, I am positive that I received the veteran's discount.

This used to be an uncomfortable situation for me. I had family and friends that served full tours, some 20 and 30 year gigs, and I always felt I was not a vet. One of them cleared it up for me (not completely, but at least comfortably), when he told me "You volunteered to take the oath, you served honorably for as long as they were willing to let your serve. You're a vet."

I went back and dug up my DD214, but I don't know that it's going to help anything. There are two lines that concern the discharge. Line 9 says TYPE OF SEPARATION and is filled in DISCHARGED. Two lines down, it says CHARACTER OF SERVICE and is filled in HONORABLE.

When I was discharged (and I remember it well, because I fought it) the Navy called the discharge a "General Discharge - Erroneous Enlistment".

As I said earlier, I got my veteran discount.

I don't know how the recruiter got you past the MEPS health examination process. MEPS sole purpose is to qualify individuals ability and capabilities to serve. Thankfully it did not interfere with the chl process.

Off topic, but I don't mind explaining. The obvious problem was I had a hearing loss in my left ear. The loss was significant (and is worse now), but was within the acceptable range since my hearing was normal in my right ear. However, it flagged me for a "conference" with a doctor after I got in.

I had no idea what was going on, and simply answered the questions. Because I had a history of earaches, they did a deeper examination (that level of exam was not conducted before going in). That examination (and my answers to questions), revealed a chronic problem with my Eustachian tube that would likely cause the ear infections to continue (they did), and the hearing loss to become more profound (it did). That would have eventually made me "eligible" to get out on a disability, and it was in the Navy's interest to discharge me before I could qualify for a disability. I don't blame them, but I didn't like it.

[sugar land dave]

Sorry, just curious how it happened. A friend's son made it through basic training, then during later drills an instructor injured his knee. They forced him out, but gave him an honorable discharge.

[E.Marquez]

I was going to stay away from this post but I'm going to have my say. An Honorable Discharge is what one gets after completing a commitment of time served in the service. A General Discharge is when the service just gets rid of you for what ever reason. For me looking at that I think you have already got way more than you deserve. When you try to put your situation in the same category as an Honorable Discharged service member is the same as Stolen Valor.

Not necessarily. A Gen With Honorable Condition can be for reasons that you were not able to complete a tour. Use to be, your wife died and you had to take care of the five kids and were nondeployable in a combat arms MOS you had to get out on a hardship discharge. Anything not of a disciplinary nature that a person could not complete their tour. Was elected as a State Representative while on active duty.

Your opinion is NOT what I personally observed in my time of service 1985-2014. Not a single service member that was separated early from a contract who left in good standing was given ANYTHING but a Honorable Discharge

[Right2Carry]

I was going to stay away from this post but I'm going to have my say. An Honorable Discharge is what one gets after completing a commitment of time served in the service. A General Discharge is when the service just gets rid of you for what ever reason. For me looking at that I think you have already got way more than you deserve. When you try to put your situation in the same category as an Honorable Discharged service member is the same as Stolen Valor.

Not necessarily. A Gen With Honorable Condition can be for reasons that you were not able to complete a tour. Use to be, your wife died and you had to take care of the five kids and were nondeployable in a combat arms MOS you had to get out on a hardship discharge. Anything not of a disciplinary nature that a person could not complete their tour. Was elected as a State Representative while on active duty.

Your opinion is NOT what I personally observed in my time of service 1985-2014. Not a single service member that was separated early from a contract who left in good standing was given ANYTHING but a Honorable Discharge

I am just curious on how you know this? Did you actually see every single discharge that was handed out during the time frame you posted?

[E.Marquez]

I was going to stay away from this post but I'm going to have my say. An Honorable Discharge is what one gets after completing a commitment of time served in the service. A General Discharge is when the service just gets rid of you for what ever reason. For me looking at that I think you have already got way more than you deserve. When you try to put your situation in the same category as an Honorable Discharged service member is the same as Stolen Valor.

Not necessarily. A Gen With Honorable Condition can be for reasons that you were not able to complete a tour. Use to be, your wife died and you had to take care of the five kids and were nondeployable in a combat arms MOS you had to get out on a hardship discharge. Anything not of a disciplinary nature that a person could not complete their tour. Was elected as a State Representative while on active duty.

Your opinion is NOT what I personally observed in my time of service 1985-2014. Not a single service member that was separated early from a contract who left in good standing was given ANYTHING but a Honorable Discharge

I am just curious on how you know this? Did you actually see every single discharge that was handed out during the time frame you posted?

No, nor did i say that or imply it.

But I did observe many hundreds of Soldiers being discharged, and many Discharged involuntarily.. I personally executed the process on many dozens of servicemembers who were separated under Honorable conditions that did not serve the contracted period of service.

I had second hand knowledge of hundreds more Soldiers who were discharged before ETS.... with both Honorable and General discharges.

[Right2Carry]

I was going to stay away from this post but I'm going to have my say. An Honorable Discharge is what one gets after completing a commitment of time served in the service. A General Discharge is when the service just gets rid of you for what ever reason. For me looking at that I think you have already got way more than you deserve. When you try to put your situation in the same category as an Honorable Discharged service member is the same as Stolen Valor.

Not necessarily. A Gen With Honorable Condition can be for reasons that you were not able to complete a tour. Use to be, your wife died and you had to take care of the five kids and were nondeployable in a combat arms MOS you had to get out on a hardship discharge. Anything not of a disciplinary nature that a person could not complete their tour. Was elected as a State Representative while on active duty.

Your opinion is NOT what I personally observed in my time of service 1985-2014. Not a single service member that was separated early from a contract who left in good standing was given ANYTHING but a Honorable Discharge

I am just curious on how you know this? Did you actually see every single discharge that was handed out during the time frame you posted?

No, nor did i say that or imply it.

But I did observe many hundreds of Soldiers being discharged, and many Discharged involuntarily.. I personally executed the process on many dozens of servicemembers who were separated under Honorable conditions that did not serve the contracted period of service.

I had second hand knowledge of hundreds more Soldiers who were discharged before ETS.... with both Honorable and General discharges.

Honorable conditions is not the same as a Honorable Discharge which is what we are discussing. You should also be aware that there is a seperation code (3 digits) which is also on the long DD214 which gives additional information about the discharge. The type of discharge one receives is dependant on many factors.

I have honorable discharged plates on my vehicle but I don't thing someone who has a general discharge under honorable conditions is entitled to the same plate. Tjat all depends on DPS and their definition of Honorable Discharge.

[casp625]

Line 26 is your 3 digit separation code where Line 28 is the "Narrative Reason For Separation."

[mcscanner]

You should include the DD214N form date (i.e. 1 NOV 72). On mine #26 is Decorations, Medals... authorized and #28 is address after separation. Which is different that the one previously issued, 7 year prior (1 JUL 66)

Line 26 is your 3 digit separation code where Line 28 is the "Narrative Reason For Separation."

[E.Marquez]

Honorable conditions is not the same as a Honorable Discharge which is what we are discussing.

Thanks, thats not news to me,, what is your point?

You should also be aware that there is a seperation code (3 digits) which is also on the long DD214 which gives additional information about the discharge.

Not only am I very aware of the Separation Program Designators (SPD) Codes. I know they are not publicly available.
Army Regulation (AR) 635-5-1 provides separation codes for Soldiers based upon the type of separation
http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/635_seri ... ion_1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That means unless you have access, that code means NOTHING to you the casual observer.. It could stand for separated from active duty due to financial indebtedness, pregnancy or trial by court martial.
Try a FOIA if you want a current description for each current code.

The reenlistment eligibility ( RE ) code is public knowledge and may tell part of the story as well.
RE codes of interest and relevant to this discussion

RE-3 - Individuals who are not qualified for continued Army service, but the disqualification is waiverable. Ineligible for enlistment unless a waiver is granted.

RE-3B - Individuals who have time lost during their last period of service. Ineligible for enlistment unless waiver is granted. (paras 2-7 and 2-8a). Applicable to EM who have time lost during thier last period of service.

RE-3C - lndividuals who have completed over 4 months service who do not meet the pay grade requirements of Chapter 2), or who have been denied enlistment under Qualitative Screening Process pursuant to Chapter 4 AR 600-200. Ineligible for enlistment unless waiver is granted. Applicable to persons who have completed over 8 months service who do not meet the prior grade and service criterion of the Qualitative Management Program (AR 600-200 Chapter 4).

RE-4 - Individuals separated from last period of service with a nonwaiverable disqualification (refer to AR 601-280). Ineligible for enlistment except as provided for in paragraphs 2-7c and 2-7d. (See waiverable moral and administrative disqualifications.) Disqualilication is nonwaivable.

RE-4R - Individuals retiring after 20 or more years active Federal service (title 10, U.S. Code 3914 or 3917) Ineligible for enlistment. (THIS IS ON MY DD214 )

The type of discharge one receives is dependant on many factors.

Yes, Im aware of that and stated so myself above..
Again.. in my experience over 29 years as recently as 2014 only those that deserved the general discharge or worse received it, was it not for the convenience of the unit or government in general, something less than a general discharge would likely have been issued..That is the point I have made and maintained in this entire conversation.
But the Army is a large group...it's entirely possible in a unit someplace that I never served (lots of those). in the Reserves (never served) in the National Guard (never served) unit leaders and post admin processors chose to issue a general discharge just because it was thursday. ...and the Sm in question did not serve in their proposal opinion with distinction. When that happens ...there is an appeal process..

Others with like length of service who served in a leadership positions to have a wide range of first hand knowledge and observations may differ from mine.. of course. Though none that Im aware of have spoken up in this thread..

I have honorable discharged plates on my vehicle but I don't thing someone who has a general discharge under honorable conditions is entitled to the same plate. Tjat all depends on DPS and their definition of Honorable Discharge.

I agree, and no place in anything I posted is in contention to your point and position. IOW I think we are agreeing... but your post in response reads like we do not

[Right2Carry]

Honorable conditions is not the same as a Honorable Discharge which is what we are discussing.

Thanks, thats not news to me,, what is your point?

You should also be aware that there is a seperation code (3 digits) which is also on the long DD214 which gives additional information about the discharge.

Not only am I very aware of the Separation Program Designators (SPD) Codes. I know they are not publicly available.
Army Regulation (AR) 635-5-1 provides separation codes for Soldiers based upon the type of separation
http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/635_seri ... ion_1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That means unless you have access, that code means NOTHING to you the casual observer.. It could stand for separated from active duty due to financial indebtedness, pregnancy or trial by court martial.
Try a FOIA if you want a current description for each current code.

The reenlistment eligibility ( RE ) code is public knowledge and may tell part of the story as well.
RE codes of interest and relevant to this discussion

RE-3 - Individuals who are not qualified for continued Army service, but the disqualification is waiverable. Ineligible for enlistment unless a waiver is granted.

RE-3B - Individuals who have time lost during their last period of service. Ineligible for enlistment unless waiver is granted. (paras 2-7 and 2-8a). Applicable to EM who have time lost during thier last period of service.

RE-3C - lndividuals who have completed over 4 months service who do not meet the pay grade requirements of Chapter 2), or who have been denied enlistment under Qualitative Screening Process pursuant to Chapter 4 AR 600-200. Ineligible for enlistment unless waiver is granted. Applicable to persons who have completed over 8 months service who do not meet the prior grade and service criterion of the Qualitative Management Program (AR 600-200 Chapter 4).

RE-4 - Individuals separated from last period of service with a nonwaiverable disqualification (refer to AR 601-280). Ineligible for enlistment except as provided for in paragraphs 2-7c and 2-7d. (See waiverable moral and administrative disqualifications.) Disqualilication is nonwaivable.

RE-4R - Individuals retiring after 20 or more years active Federal service (title 10, U.S. Code 3914 or 3917) Ineligible for enlistment. (THIS IS ON MY DD214 )

The type of discharge one receives is dependant on many factors.

Yes, Im aware of that and stated so myself above..
Still, again.. in my experience over 29 years as recently as 2014 only those that deserved the general discharge or worse, but for the convenience of the unit received a the general discharge..That is the point I have made and maintained in this entire conversation.
Others with like length of service who served in a leadership positions to have a wide range of first hand knowledge and observations may differ from mine.. of course. Though none that Im aware of have spoken up in this thread..

I have honorable discharged plates on my vehicle but I don't thing someone who has a general discharge under honorable conditions is entitled to the same plate. Tjat all depends on DPS and their definition of Honorable Discharge.

I agree, and no place in anything I posted is in contention to your point and position. IOW I think we are agreeing... but your post in response reads like we do noy

Those three digit codes were leaked long ago and in 30 seconds or less you can find them on the Internet from veteran organizations to a host of sites. The codes also have their meanings attached so it isn't a secret anymore. One can find out exactly what that code means if they want to spend a few minutes digging.

[Right2Carry]

Honorable conditions is not the same as a Honorable Discharge which is what we are discussing.

Thanks, thats not news to me,, what is your point?

You should also be aware that there is a seperation code (3 digits) which is also on the long DD214 which gives additional information about the discharge.

Not only am I very aware of the Separation Program Designators (SPD) Codes. I know they are not publicly available.
Army Regulation (AR) 635-5-1 provides separation codes for Soldiers based upon the type of separation
http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/635_seri ... ion_1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That means unless you have access, that code means NOTHING to you the casual observer.. It could stand for separated from active duty due to financial indebtedness, pregnancy or trial by court martial.
Try a FOIA if you want a current description for each current code.

The reenlistment eligibility ( RE ) code is public knowledge and may tell part of the story as well.
RE codes of interest and relevant to this discussion

RE-3 - Individuals who are not qualified for continued Army service, but the disqualification is waiverable. Ineligible for enlistment unless a waiver is granted.

RE-3B - Individuals who have time lost during their last period of service. Ineligible for enlistment unless waiver is granted. (paras 2-7 and 2-8a). Applicable to EM who have time lost during thier last period of service.

RE-3C - lndividuals who have completed over 4 months service who do not meet the pay grade requirements of Chapter 2), or who have been denied enlistment under Qualitative Screening Process pursuant to Chapter 4 AR 600-200. Ineligible for enlistment unless waiver is granted. Applicable to persons who have completed over 8 months service who do not meet the prior grade and service criterion of the Qualitative Management Program (AR 600-200 Chapter 4).

RE-4 - Individuals separated from last period of service with a nonwaiverable disqualification (refer to AR 601-280). Ineligible for enlistment except as provided for in paragraphs 2-7c and 2-7d. (See waiverable moral and administrative disqualifications.) Disqualilication is nonwaivable.

RE-4R - Individuals retiring after 20 or more years active Federal service (title 10, U.S. Code 3914 or 3917) Ineligible for enlistment. (THIS IS ON MY DD214 )

The type of discharge one receives is dependant on many factors.

Yes, Im aware of that and stated so myself above..
Again.. in my experience over 29 years as recently as 2014 only those that deserved the general discharge or worse received it, was it not for the convenience of the unit or government in general, something less than a general discharge would likely have been issued..That is the point I have made and maintained in this entire conversation.
But the Army is a large group...it's entirely possible in a unit someplace that I never served (lots of those). in the Reserves (never served) in the National Guard (never served) unit leaders and post admin processors chose to issue a general discharge just because it was thursday. ...and the Sm in question did not serve in their proposal opinion with distinction. When that happens ...there is an appeal process..

Others with like length of service who served in a leadership positions to have a wide range of first hand knowledge and observations may differ from mine.. of course. Though none that Im aware of have spoken up in this thread..

I have honorable discharged plates on my vehicle but I don't thing someone who has a general discharge under honorable conditions is entitled to the same plate. Tjat all depends on DPS and their definition of Honorable Discharge.

I agree, and no place in anything I posted is in contention to your point and position. IOW I think we are agreeing... but your post in response reads like we do not

Sometimes you just get tired and miss a point.

[E.Marquez]

Those three digit codes were leaked long ago and in 30 seconds or less you can find them on the Internet from veteran organizations to a host of sites. The codes also have their meanings attached so it isn't a secret anymore. One can find out exactly what that code means if they want to spend a few minutes digging.

You can see what there were, not what they are..so no, not state secrets for sure.. just not publicly available

They change, they are added to, removed, revised. There are messages sent out all year that change them, as well as each time the reg is re published.

Yes you can get thousands of google hits..Some of it will be accurate, some not, and unless they have recently posted the revised list of codes, some codes missing. You can also pay one of many companies that will do the leg work and get you a copy of a SM's DD214 for you as well as provide deciphering and explanations to each part of it.. That will get you better info than what you can likely find yourself.