e-mail from student about road raging motorcyclist

[poppo]

I see nothing wrong. maybe she could have called the cops, but she was focused on the task at hand.

Per the original story, he called 911 after he pulled the gun. I fail to see how calling 911 could not have been the "task at hand" prior to stopping in the first place. As long as the vehicle was in motion, there was little if any threat.

[gemini]

A cut and paste below of e-mail received today by "Ron" (not his real name).
-----------------------
Sent: Tue, May 14, 2013 21:47:27 GMT+00:00
Subject: Had to Draw my Gun Today

I had a motorcyclist chase me down and bang on my car window while screaming at me while I sat at a light. I had no idea what his problem was.

Then he continued to “chase” me screaming and weaving all over the road. As I entered the street where I’m currently working he followed and I had one choice.

Bring his risk to the work place or stop it there. I stopped my car in the road and he crashed into the back of it. He gets off the road and proceeds to scream and bang on the window. He tries to open the door. He takes off his gear and I expect him to try and break the glass so brandished my firearm and tell him to leave me alone.

He backed off and I called 911 and explained.

The cops came, had me step out with my hands up. I explained all to them and they told the guy he was completely at fault; warned him not to chase people and follow so close. They did not bill it as a traffic accident. They returned my firearm and I went on my way.

It was interesting that the cop told the guy that this was Texas as the explanation as to why I pulled a gun on a guy half my age threatening me with violence.

------------------------------

"He tries to open the door." I believe is the key verbiage in this one for 9.04 to apply. Sounds like the Irving PD also knew about that one.

More than likely "Ron" cut the biker off, drifted into his lane, changed lanes without checking
his rear view mirrors, or was texting/talking on phone and driving erratically. I see it all the time.
As others have stated, there's two sides to every story. From what's been presented, I believe "Ron"
was a distracted driver not aware of his environment and made a mistake. I believe the biker had a
legitimate gripe but took it too far.
In my younger days, I too would have been yelling and beating on the window. (ah, foolish youth).
These days I will pull up next to a car, motion for them to roll down the window, and fairly calmly
state, "If you hit me, I won't be able to go home to my wife and kids". Usually the response is "sorry".
When it's not, I let it go. Ride safe.

[SewTexas]

I see nothing wrong. maybe she could have called the cops, but she was focused on the task at hand.

Per the original story, he called 911 after he pulled the gun. I fail to see how calling 911 could not have been the "task at hand" prior to stopping in the first place. As long as the vehicle was in motion, there was little if any threat.

because you and everyone else constantly say put the phone in your purse and drive!!!

[bdickens]

technically what happened you can be arrested for it. you cannot just pull your gun out to scare someone.that "brandishing" can get you put in jail. And their is no such thing as brandishing; its called aggravated assault which is a felony.

You can't go charging up to somebody's car and start beating on the windows, either. That, too, is called assault.

[92f-fan]

More than likely "Ron" cut the biker off, drifted into his lane, changed lanes without checking
his rear view mirrors, or was texting/talking on phone and driving erratically. I see it all the time.
As others have stated, there's two sides to every story. From what's been presented, I believe "Ron"
was a distracted driver not aware of his environment and made a mistake. I believe the biker had a
legitimate gripe but took it too far.
In my younger days, I too would have been yelling and beating on the window. (ah, foolish youth).
These days I will pull up next to a car, motion for them to roll down the window, and fairly calmly
state, "If you hit me, I won't be able to go home to my wife and kids". Usually the response is "sorry".
When it's not, I let it go. Ride safe.

Based on percentages I see a MUCH higher percentage of oddball behavior by bikers than "cage drivers"
The numbers of bikers is much smaller, yet 1 of 3 seems to be acting just like previously described, zooming down the middle of 2 lanes or down the shoulder, or weaving between gridlocked traffic etc etc. Im not saying that more jerks in cages wouldnt do the same if they could, but based on my commutes and my experiences I see a very high percentage of 2 wheelers that flaunt the law. To the extent that I think that's the reason many choose 2 wheels.

We havent talked about the illegal modifications that are done to the bikes or the riding shirtless with shorts, flip flops and no helmet. If you expect me to pay extra close attention to 2 wheeled vehicles I expect them to act responsibly.

The reason I don't ride is because EVERYONE I know that ridden for any length of time has metal in their body. You can if you want, try to blame all those incidents on the cage drivers, but as mom used to say "it takes 2 to tango" and the driver of BOTH vehicles ALWAYS play a role in EVERY accident.
my $0.02

[Greybeard]

A 30-something yo female student (let's call her "Beth") told me 3 or 4 years ago about confrontation also directly related to 9.04 and 9.32. Beth was meeting some friends for dinner at near downtown Dallas. She had just parallel parked her truck and got out when she was approached by a female methhead?/panhandler. Beth said the panhandler lady was quite discheveled looking and asking for money. Beth told her something to the effect of "No, stay away from me." , then got back in her truck and locked the door when the woman continued to approach her.

The woman then approached her drivers side window and said "What? Are you skeeeeered? I just need a little money." Beth then responded with something the rules here do not allow repeating. Let's just say she not-so-politely included a four letter word in a phrase suggesting the lady vacate her personal space. The panhandler became enraged and began beating on the window with both fists, at which point she got to see up close and personal the business end of a Kahr CW-9. Then promptly decided it was time to leave THAT lady alone. Once she was well on down the street, Beth then got out of her truck and went to find her friends in the restaurant. And did not bother to call the police.

To me, both of these incidents are examples of the many, many times each year that firearms are legitimately "shown-but-not-shot" to terminate a potentially violent encounter. Some reported to the police, but many times not.

[RPBrown]

I've had a Steyr AUG discharge about 4 inches from my ear. Lost all my hearing and suffered severe headaches for about a month.

Mine was a 5" Model 29 about 4" from my left ear. That was in 1996 or '97. My left ear is still ringing as I write this. Had the same loss of hearing and headaches that took a while to go away.

Mine was my first 1911, a Springfield. And yes, still have the ringing some 22 years later

[steve817]

technically what happened you can be arrested for it. you cannot just pull your gun out to scare someone.that "brandishing" can get you put in jail. And their is no such thing as brandishing; its called aggravated assault which is a felony.

actually yes you can in fact produce your weapon as a deterrent to further hostility and go home smoke cigarettes and drink coffee, and the other guy can have 3 weeks in jail. I know I just went thru it a month ago for the 4th or 5th time in the last 4 years

Have you shared any of these stories here?

[EEllis]

Based on percentages I see a MUCH higher percentage of oddball behavior by bikers than "cage drivers"
The numbers of bikers is much smaller, yet 1 of 3 seems to be acting just like previously described, zooming down the middle of 2 lanes or down the shoulder, or weaving between gridlocked traffic etc etc. Im not saying that more jerks in cages wouldnt do the same if they could, but based on my commutes and my experiences I see a very high percentage of 2 wheelers that flaunt the law. To the extent that I think that's the reason many choose 2 wheels.

We havent talked about the illegal modifications that are done to the bikes or the riding shirtless with shorts, flip flops and no helmet. If you expect me to pay extra close attention to 2 wheeled vehicles I expect them to act responsibly.

The reason I don't ride is because EVERYONE I know that ridden for any length of time has metal in their body. You can if you want, try to blame all those incidents on the cage drivers, but as mom used to say "it takes 2 to tango" and the driver of BOTH vehicles ALWAYS play a role in EVERY accident.
my $0.02

One big problem is that people just don't notice motorcycles. Say what you will but something like 40% of motorcycle deaths are caused by left turns into or just in front of a motorcycle and in that case it is 100% the left turning drivers fault. So that whole "two to Tango" thing is absurd. Sure motorcycle riding is inherently dangerous. Just going around a curve can be risky if your skills are not up to it and then throw in gravel, slick spots, potholes, etc. Then throw in cagers who you swear look you right in the eye then pull across right in front of you....... Then you have people who seem to think you have to meet some internal standard they have before you are worthy of them giving a darn.

[RPBrown]

Based on percentages I see a MUCH higher percentage of oddball behavior by bikers than "cage drivers"
The numbers of bikers is much smaller, yet 1 of 3 seems to be acting just like previously described, zooming down the middle of 2 lanes or down the shoulder, or weaving between gridlocked traffic etc etc. Im not saying that more jerks in cages wouldnt do the same if they could, but based on my commutes and my experiences I see a very high percentage of 2 wheelers that flaunt the law. To the extent that I think that's the reason many choose 2 wheels.

We havent talked about the illegal modifications that are done to the bikes or the riding shirtless with shorts, flip flops and no helmet. If you expect me to pay extra close attention to 2 wheeled vehicles I expect them to act responsibly.

The reason I don't ride is because EVERYONE I know that ridden for any length of time has metal in their body. You can if you want, try to blame all those incidents on the cage drivers, but as mom used to say "it takes 2 to tango" and the driver of BOTH vehicles ALWAYS play a role in EVERY accident.
my $0.02

One big problem is that people just don't notice motorcycles. Say what you will but something like 40% of motorcycle deaths are caused by left turns into or just in front of a motorcycle and in that case it is 100% the left turning drivers fault. So that whole "two to Tango" thing is absurd. Sure motorcycle riding is inherently dangerous. Just going around a curve can be risky if your skills are not up to it and then throw in gravel, slick spots, potholes, etc. Then throw in cagers who you swear look you right in the eye then pull across right in front of you....... Then you have people who seem to think you have to meet some internal standard they have before you are worthy of them giving a darn.

I agree. then there are those that have a phone glued to their ear or worse yet, glued to their hand and texting. Most of the motorcycle/car accidents are caused by the car driver. I have been riding for 47 years now, been in 3 accidents. One, a lady (and I use the term loosly) turned in front of me and I broadsided her. The next a man in a sports car started pulling into my lane, I honked and grabbed brakes, he flipped me off and kept coming. Had nowhere to go but the ditch. And the last one I was sitting at a red light and saw the guy coming behind me, Due to oncoming traffic, I couldn't go forward and the guy rear ended me. Two of these, the cage drivers said they didn't see me and the other, well, he saw me but was too busy talking to whoever.

Funny thing, I see the same behavior when I am in my cage. People just don't care about anyone else but themselves

[nyj]

I avoid people doing stupid stuff every time I ride. It takes a lot of self control to not break some of these people's mirrors off. I will say that if you ever do something out of complete disregard as a driver that puts me in danger of my life, you better own up to the consequences and keep your gun out of it.

[texanjoker]

More than likely "Ron" cut the biker off, drifted into his lane, changed lanes without checking
his rear view mirrors, or was texting/talking on phone and driving erratically. I see it all the time.
As others have stated, there's two sides to every story. From what's been presented, I believe "Ron"
was a distracted driver not aware of his environment and made a mistake. I believe the biker had a
legitimate gripe but took it too far.
In my younger days, I too would have been yelling and beating on the window. (ah, foolish youth).
These days I will pull up next to a car, motion for them to roll down the window, and fairly calmly
state, "If you hit me, I won't be able to go home to my wife and kids". Usually the response is "sorry".
When it's not, I let it go. Ride safe.

Based on percentages I see a MUCH higher percentage of oddball behavior by bikers than "cage drivers"
The numbers of bikers is much smaller, yet 1 of 3 seems to be acting just like previously described, zooming down the middle of 2 lanes or down the shoulder, or weaving between gridlocked traffic etc etc. Im not saying that more jerks in cages wouldnt do the same if they could, but based on my commutes and my experiences I see a very high percentage of 2 wheelers that flaunt the law. To the extent that I think that's the reason many choose 2 wheels.

We havent talked about the illegal modifications that are done to the bikes or the riding shirtless with shorts, flip flops and no helmet. If you expect me to pay extra close attention to 2 wheeled vehicles I expect them to act responsibly.

The reason I don't ride is because EVERYONE I know that ridden for any length of time has metal in their body. You can if you want, try to blame all those incidents on the cage drivers, but as mom used to say "it takes 2 to tango" and the driver of BOTH vehicles ALWAYS play a role in EVERY accident.
my $0.02

uh ok. I get cut off pretty much EVERY day by some person in a caged vehicle when I am merely driving along minding my own business. I have my lights on, wear a bright jacket, ect. All to avoid that. Sad part is many actually look back when changing lanes and just don't care as they know a MC has to yield or risk death no matter what they do.

[92f-fan]

One big problem is that people just don't notice motorcycles. Say what you will but something like 40% of motorcycle deaths are caused by left turns into or just in front of a motorcycle and in that case it is 100% the left turning drivers fault. So that whole "two to Tango" thing is absurd. Sure motorcycle riding is inherently dangerous. Just going around a curve can be risky if your skills are not up to it and then throw in gravel, slick spots, potholes, etc. Then throw in cagers who you swear look you right in the eye then pull across right in front of you....... Then you have people who seem to think you have to meet some internal standard they have before you are worthy of them giving a darn.

The point I'm making is Car or bike you are on the road, which is risky. In the case of the bike its MUCH more risky. Your decision. And if you expect society to give you EXTRA room because you chose to be on the road that day in that risky vehicle. Then you have more faith in and higher expectations of society.

uh ok. I get cut off pretty much EVERY day by some person in a caged vehicle when I am merely driving along minding my own business. I have my lights on, wear a bright jacket, ect. All to avoid that. Sad part is many actually look back when changing lanes and just don't care as they know a MC has to yield or risk death no matter what they do.

So you think that they only cut off motorcycles ?
Idiots only left turn in front of Motorcycles ?
Its absurd to say that cars are at fault all the time. Cars outnumber bikes like 20 or more to 1 so yeah statistically when a bike gets in a 2 vehicle accident its gonna be with a car..
Its not cars vs bikes - its oblivious idiots vs the rest of us...

Most days I drive a Lexus 4 door sedan. I get cut off and have to avoid idiots every day. On the weekends I sometimes drive a 2 door with some more power. When I drive it Im even MORE careful. I dont expect people to give me extra room or pay extra attention because my car is lower and faster than theirs...

Again my $0.02
Its my job to NOT let them give me a bad day...

[nyj]

Thanks for letting us know you drive a lexus.

[RoyGBiv]

More than likely "Ron" cut the biker off, drifted into his lane, changed lanes without checking
his rear view mirrors, or was texting/talking on phone and driving erratically. I see it all the time.
As others have stated, there's two sides to every story. From what's been presented, I believe "Ron"
was a distracted driver not aware of his environment and made a mistake. I believe the biker had a
legitimate gripe but took it too far.
In my younger days, I too would have been yelling and beating on the window. (ah, foolish youth).
These days I will pull up next to a car, motion for them to roll down the window, and fairly calmly
state, "If you hit me, I won't be able to go home to my wife and kids". Usually the response is "sorry".
When it's not, I let it go. Ride safe.

Based on percentages I see a MUCH higher percentage of oddball behavior by bikers than "cage drivers"
The numbers of bikers is much smaller, yet 1 of 3 seems to be acting just like previously described, zooming down the middle of 2 lanes or down the shoulder, or weaving between gridlocked traffic etc etc. Im not saying that more jerks in cages wouldnt do the same if they could, but based on my commutes and my experiences I see a very high percentage of 2 wheelers that flaunt the law. To the extent that I think that's the reason many choose 2 wheels.

We havent talked about the illegal modifications that are done to the bikes or the riding shirtless with shorts, flip flops and no helmet. If you expect me to pay extra close attention to 2 wheeled vehicles I expect them to act responsibly.

The reason I don't ride is because EVERYONE I know that ridden for any length of time has metal in their body. You can if you want, try to blame all those incidents on the cage drivers, but as mom used to say "it takes 2 to tango" and the driver of BOTH vehicles ALWAYS play a role in EVERY accident.
my $0.02

Please be nice to motorcyclists. One of them might be me.

There are a lot of hooligan riders, certainly. They are easy to notice because they're doing hooligan things. But the good one's you don't really notice because there's nothing to notice. Just people on two wheels. Please don't paint us all with the bad brush.

As both a cage drive and motorcyclist for >30 years, I've seen my share of both sides. I've been run off the road several times by absent minded cage drivers. Thankfully there were emergency shoulders each time, so I had room to give.