Curious - Is this Forum Evidence?

[srothstein]

I am glad someone else said it before I did. I was beginning to think I was the only one who realized the cops don't need to identify you on line. They just get your computer and it has everything they need. Then they get a subpoena for yoru ISP and the server of any boards you posted to, and they have all the evidence they need.

And to make it worse, it is not just what you post. Think of all the social networking we do now. What do your friends have posted that reflects on you? Is there a picture of a party where you got drunk or did something stupid? A good investigator will find that too. When my daughter had her accident, the first thing the lawyer told her was to start checking what she has posted and what her friends have posted. Here is an interesting article on how posting has affected some cop sin their careers, along with case references:

http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Techno ... -Post.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another good point is made about this. When you apply for a job, a lot of HR departments are checking for you on-line. It is not as easy for them to identify you in forums like this, but it is not impossible either (especially if you are like me and post your real name).

[PappaGun]

Everything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law....

[hheremtp]

I am glad someone else said it before I did. I was beginning to think I was the only one who realized the cops don't need to identify you on line. They just get your computer and it has everything they need. Then they get a subpoena for yoru ISP and the server of any boards you posted to, and they have all the evidence they need.

And to make it worse, it is not just what you post. Think of all the social networking we do now. What do your friends have posted that reflects on you? Is there a picture of a party where you got drunk or did something stupid? A good investigator will find that too. When my daughter had her accident, the first thing the lawyer told her was to start checking what she has posted and what her friends have posted. Here is an interesting article on how posting has affected some cop sin their careers, along with case references:

http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Techno ... -Post.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another good point is made about this. When you apply for a job, a lot of HR departments are checking for you on-line. It is not as easy for them to identify you in forums like this, but it is not impossible either (especially if you are like me and post your real name).

That's no joke, when my wife's ex-husband applied for a job with a PD dept the guy that interviewed him asked him about some things that he had posted onto his myspace acct. The guy that interviewed him told him that he had to be careful of what he posted on the net about himself and his family. Especially since he is LE, someone that he arrested might want revenge and go looking for information about him.

[The Annoyed Man]

I have never posted details of any shooting I may or may not have been involved in. If I were ever involved in a shooting, I would never post the details of it prior to trial here, or anywhere else, for that matter. How can my words be used as evidence? Evidence of what? I haven't done anything for there to be any evidence extant.

[srothstein]

Annoyed Man,

Evidence does not have to prove a single specific act that has happened in the past. It could be evidence of an attitude or pattern of behavior, for example. And the incident that makes it usable against you might not have happened yet when you make the posts.

As one example of how things that we post can be twisted by someone with an agenda to prove, consider how many times we post scenarios here and discuss how we would react. I am not saying not to do this since I consider it important and valid training. But, if there are a dozen scenarios posted, and in six of them you said you would shoot the BG, it can be twisted to make you look like you wanted to shoot someone.

One of the great tricks some people use is to only present part of the evidence. Consider the Fish case. The prosecution tried to make him look like he wanted to shoot and kill. Suppose they had evidence he had posted that he would shoot in six different similar scenarios. The prosecution is under no obligation to present the six cases where he said he would just be a good witness. The prosecution even objected to presenting similar evidence showing the dead man was just as crazy and violent as they wanted to make Fish look. In the Fish case, it cost him a couple years in jail and a lot of money.

All I am saying about our posting here is to remember that it is out there and can be used in court. The good side of this is that your defense attorney can counter the bad image by presenting the other six posts and other forums. Almost any activity we engage in can be a double edged sword than can help you or hurt you.

[The Annoyed Man]

Understood, but for every post where I've said that I would shoot in a given scenario, I've posted twice as many times about not going into places where I am likely to find trouble, about walking away, about being a good witness, etc., etc., etc. (HERE for example)

A prosecutor may not be obligated to use all of my words IN CONTEXT in order to try and make his/her case, but the rules of discovery require that he/she make available the source, and I know darn well what I've written and what I haven't. I can provide overwhelming counter evidence (using the same standard) to prove that he/she is full of bunkum, and I would make sure that my attorney had access to all of that too.

I don't consider what I post to be irresponsible, but I flat out refuse to be intimidated from speaking in a forthright and honest manner because someone else got their unmentionables in a twist. So, as long as I continue to post responsibly, I don't fear what some overzealous prosecutor may find of mine on this site — or any other site for that matter.

[57Coastie]

I have never posted details of any shooting I may or may not have been involved in. If I were ever involved in a shooting, I would never post the details of it prior to trial here, or anywhere else, for that matter. How can my words be used as evidence? Evidence of what? I haven't done anything for there to be any evidence extant.

I suspect the problem here, AM, is that the basic question was unclear, and likely misstated, when it asked, "Is this forum evidence?" It would most likely be agreed that the answer to that question is, "No, the forum itself is most likely not evidence of anything, but individual posts might become evidence under certain circumstances."

I think that most, if not all, the commentators read the question as really asking, instead, "Could postings on this forum be used as evidence if circumstances made it relevant in a courtroom, and all the myriad rules of evidence permitted?" Now the answer is "Yes," and then the thread wandered off into how a poster might be identified and the "evidence" be admitted into evidence.

If it ever became an issue as to whether or not many of the commentators answered the wrong question, their posts could likely be used as evidence of their having done so, including me.

So, AM, I would think that you are quite correct when you argue that your post here is evidence of nothing, you are right. (Don't get me wrong and become "annoyed," as no subtlety intended.)

Jim

[android]

In my opinion, any defense attorney worth ten cents would get any forum postings tossed out in a heartbeat. First thing I would ask is, prove that the defendent actually made those posts. You account is barely protected by a flimsy password and linked with cookies on any computer that you may have browsed here from in the past. Anything on the internet can be easily hacked by anyone that cares and has a few hours to spend on it.

I see a lot of posts made using my account that I didn't write. I don't know how they got on here, but I didn't post them. I didn't even post this reply and you can't prove I did. It was probably my brother in law or my dog.

Not at all the same as email in a corporate environment intranet where authenticity is somewhat guaranteed by unique ID's and encryption.

[srothstein]

I don't consider what I post to be irresponsible, but I flat out refuse to be intimidated from speaking in a forthright and honest manner because someone else got their unmentionables in a twist.

OK, I am glad to see we are in agreement then. My misunderstanding was that you might not see how posts can be used against you. But you do understand, as I now see. All I really wanted to do was make sure people were aware of the possible consequences and how easy it is to get the evidence. Many people think they are anonymous on the Internet because they post behind a pseudonym instead of using their real names. These are the people who need to understand the real world.

I applaud you on your stance. I also refuse to give in to fear and change my ways of doing things because of what someone else might do. I post how I feel on various topics, and some of those opinions may not be popular. But they are my opinions and I will stand behind what I say, so I don't care if someone else doesn't like them. I cannot believe how many people are willing to change their very lifestyles out of fear of some other person's reactions instead of standing up for what they believe.

After the recent shooting in Washington, Police magazine did an informal web survey of cops to see how many would stop eating in local fast food restaurants. I was amazed that more than 50% said they would stop that to avoid being shot in an ambush. I cannot believe that these cops would change their lifestyles out of fear. How can they possibly make the public any safer if they are afraid themselves?

[bdickens]

Understood, but for every post where I've said that I would shoot in a given scenario, I've posted twice as many times about not going into places where I am likely to find trouble, about walking away, about being a good witness, etc., etc., etc. (HERE for example)

A prosecutor may not be obligated to use all of my words IN CONTEXT in order to try and make his/her case, but the rules of discovery require that he/she make available the source, and I know darn well what I've written and what I haven't. I can provide overwhelming counter evidence (using the same standard) to prove that he/she is full of bunkum, and I would make sure that my attorney had access to all of that too.

I don't consider what I post to be irresponsible, but I flat out refuse to be intimidated from speaking in a forthright and honest manner because someone else got their unmentionables in a twist. So, as long as I continue to post responsibly, I don't fear what some overzealous prosecutor may find of mine on this site — or any other site for that matter.

Yet another reason I either stay out of certain threads or post a cryptic comment like "it depends."