No CHL and traffic stop while carrying in vehicle.

[Elvis]

For the record I think it is a bad idea for Officers to disarm a CHL holder on a traffic stop. The fewer people that handle a loaded gun the better. If you tell the me you are armed I will ask you to step away from your vehicle if that is where you have it, or just ask you to keep your hands visible until you come back as clear and valid.

WildBill, the Officer will find out you have a CHL anyway so why not tell him upfront and then tell him the status of your gun, or lack of gun?

[WildBill]

WildBill, the Officer will find out you have a CHL anyway so why not tell him upfront and then tell him the status of your gun, or lack of gun?

I don't tell them unless they ask. They never have.

[lunchbox]

WildBill, the Officer will find out you have a CHL anyway so why not tell him upfront and then tell him the status of your gun, or lack of gun?

I don't tell them until they ask. They never have.

im always armed so i dont have that option

[WildBill]

WildBill, the Officer will find out you have a CHL anyway so why not tell him upfront and then tell him the status of your gun, or lack of gun?

I don't tell them until they ask. They never have.

im always armed so i dont have that option

Yes you do. You can give them your CHL and keep quite until they ask you something.

[flintknapper]

the number say the officer is much more likely to be shot at by a non CHL[/quote]

No the numbers say the Officer is much more likely to be shot by a gun. After the fact the investigation will find out if the person had a CHL or not. The Point Is, everyone we come into contact with that is armed should be treated as a threat to our safety until the Officer is satisfied that you are not a threat.[/quote]




What a shame.

Perhaps a change of job would be best Sir.

Respectfully,

Flint.

[lunchbox]

im just hoping i dont get pulled over in the first place i obey the traffic laws as best i can and have only had one speeding ticket ever

at the time i was 18 and armed but i was taking my friends hunting so we had several rifles
the cop didnt say anything but we were in a small town in west texas where this sort of thing is normal
i was still mad about the ticket as the LEO wrote it for 39 in the 35 when the radar gun (yes i got out and looked at it) said 36
it was a standard small town trap where it goes from 70 to 55 to 45 to 35 to 30 in the span of a couple hundred yards


what department are you in elvis

[WildBill]

im just hoping i dont get pulled over in the first place i obey the traffic laws as best i can

I think most of us try to do that.

[Elvis]

Flint how do you propose we should treat someone with a gun. Run back to the car and leave? Stand there and hope for the best? Beg that they don't hurt us? I am quite capable of handling my safety and I understand the challenges of my job, I have been in a shooting and I have taken another persons life. I don't want to do that again but I will not allow anyone's arrogance about my safety to prevent me from going home at the end of my shift. Your statement is lost on me.

[03Lightningrocks]

Elvis, I don't know you and you may be a great person, but some of your posts here are a little scary to me. Maybe your just bothered by the topic at hand and some of the posts, but your posts are coming off like you have a chip on your shoulder. Are you an officer in a pretty rough area?

[srothstein]

the number say the officer is much more likely to be shot at by a non CHL[/quote]

No the numbers say the Officer is much more likely to be shot by a gun. After the fact the investigation will find out if the person had a CHL or not. The Point Is, everyone we come into contact with that is armed should be treated as a threat to our safety until the Officer is satisfied that you are not a threat.[/quote]


Elvis, as one peace officer to another, this post and your post about a man with a gun bother me too. I am also a gun guy and have some trouble with this logic.

I understand what you are saying as a peace officer and I think it came across wrong. When you are surprised by a gun at a scene, you need to react for safety. But, at the same time, you also take into account other factors than just a man with a gun, even if you do so subconsciously. You look at where the gun is and what the person is doing (reaching for it or ignoring it, etc.). You even take into account how the person is dressed and acting. I know you do, even when you do not realize it because I train cops for a living. Proof that you do this is simple. What do you do when you stop another cop? I have never told another officer that I have a gun. I have asked if it does any good if I am a cop and I assume he would know I am carrying from that, but that is very rarely right at the start. I get it done as quickly as possible but not trying to seem like I am demanding proivileges I am not entitled to. When is the last time you were stopped and told the other officer explicitly that you were armed (and I do know some cops do just that)?

With the new laws on the books, all of us working in law enforcement better get more used to seeing guns and not panicking at the mere sight. A CHL must tell us, but a traveler never had to. Now, a person can legally have a concealed gun in the car and not tell us at all.There is a chance we might see it by accident and they don't need to have a CHL or tell us first. If you automatically draw on a person who is not breaking the law and not actively threatening you, you might have some explaining to do. As a Chief, how are you going to explain to that citizen who is coming in to complain about your officer doing just that?

An on a different note, I think we may have a difference of opinion on the law. You said in one post that a person with a CHL is always carrying underr the authority of the CHL when the pistol is on or about his person. This, IMHO, is clearly not the case if they are in a car, even if the gun is in a hip holster. As I understand it, a CHL only gives authority when the carrying would otherwise be illegal. Since the law was changed and it is no longer a violation of PC 46.02 to carry in a car, the CHL is not giving authority until they step out of the car. This may be a serious legal question if they are driving into a parking lot that is posted for 30.06. That law only applies when carrying under the authority of a CHL.

As proof that you CAN choose which authority you are carrying under, consider the cops who also have CHL's (it gets them through the NICS check for one thing). Which authority to carry are they using?

Now, I have to admit that the the law about showing us your CHL does not specify just when under the authority of your CHL. If that is what you meant (and it was in that context), the law is explicit that it applies if you have a CHL and a pistol on or about your person. It says nothing about authority. If I have a peace officer's license and badge, and a CHL, I would still be bound to show the CHL, even as i tell them i am also a cop.

[carlson1]

An on a different note, I think we may have a difference of opinion on the law. You said in one post that a person with a CHL is always carrying underr the authority of the CHL when the pistol is on or about his person. This, IMHO, is clearly not the case if they are in a car, even if the gun is in a hip holster. As I understand it, a CHL only gives authority when the carrying would otherwise be illegal. Since the law was changed and it is no longer a violation of PC 46.02 to carry in a car, the CHL is not giving authority until they step out of the car. This may be a serious legal question if they are driving into a parking lot that is posted for 30.06. That law only applies when carrying under the authority of a CHL.

I would like to hear some more on this. Good stuff.

[Liberty]

No the numbers say the Officer is much more likely to be shot by a gun. After the fact the investigation will find out if the person had a CHL or not. The Point Is, everyone we come into contact with that is armed should be treated as a threat to our safety until the Officer is satisfied that you are not a threat.

Elvis, just playing the devils advocate here. I travel out of state a lot, and will present my CHL and my carry status unless something seems wrong at the encounter.

The dirty little secret is that not every LEO is a good guy, There are bad guys in the ranks and we read about them almost everyday in the news. The state of Texas permits CHL holders to carry discretly because we can be trusted. An LEO is under less threat from us than any other group of citizens. Statistically we are in more danger of the LEO accidently shooting us than the CHL is of shooting the LEO. The LEO is under no more danger from us CHLs than the store clerks or any of a hundred people we may come in contact with. In fact the store clerk is more likely to shot by a client than most LEO's of getting shot in their career.

All this being said I still think its a good idea to let an LEO know what our carry status is except in unusual situations.

[mr.72]

eventually it will get to where only courtrooms, commercial airplanes, and prisons are forbidden.

Why these places?

Courtrooms are public property. If LE officers are allowed in there with a gun, then it is unconstitutional for citizens to not be allowed in with a gun since the rights of the LEO are granted by the people.

Commercial airplanes are private property just like any other private property and I don't see how the gov't needs to be in the business of telling any private business what they can and cannot allow into their property. You want to fly an airline that has a 30.06 sign on the plane, then that's your choice as a consumer. Maybe I want to fly an airline where I know half of the cabin are armed. Where's that cartoon ...

Prisons? This doesn't make any sense at all. Is a CHL holder really going to willfully walk into a prison, through metal detectors, surveillance cameras, numerous armed guards, etc. in order to carry a gun in to give to a prisoner or shoot a prisoner? A prisoner is far and away more likely to be killed by a fellow inmate. This law never made sense to me. Everyone in the place would know you were armed the moment you walked through the metal detector, so while it may be concealed from the view of the "normal observer" (that is, everyone else visiting), the security checkpoint would reveal you were carrying. You'd likely just need to present your CHL at the metal detector and then when you walk through and it beeps they know why.

[thankGod]

Personally I agree with Elvis. Okay I realize that I am opening myself up to flame bait as before, but I believe in showing the officer the common courtesy of presenting the CHL.

Yes I understand the debate about whether or not we should need to present if one is not carrying, and about the fact that you can carry in your car without a license. As Mr. Cotton and others have mentioned the laws were passed at different times with different agendas. Hopefully they will be changed in the near future so that they will be more in line with common sense. This has been a dead horse issue, until the law is changed.

As for the flame bait, I mentioned in a much earlier post, I believe it to be a matter of ethics. It is out of respect for the officer that I will present my CHL, whether I need to or not. He doesn't know me from Adam, nor does he know anyone else. He does not know how an individual will react to him. Put him at ease the best you can, out of respect. The issue in presenting the CHL is not an issue of fairness, or what I have a legal "right" to do under the law. It is simple respect for the officer and his duty.

[RiveraRa]

I have a sincere question...
I have heard time and time again (not just on this forum) that LEO's say if they stop you and they detect the presence of a gun and you havent told them about it you will find yourself staring down the barrel of their weapon.

For those LEO's that think this way...would you react the same if you came to someones house and saw the same? Say a neighbor called in a noise complaint. You knock on the persons door and they are open carrying. Would you immediately draw your weapon on them? If not, then why would you do it for a speeding violation?

I am not stating either way what the law should say, I am just trying to understand the mind frame here. Thank you!