UT Campus Carry - Surprise!!

[ELB]

Also (p 18):

RECOMMENDATION # 9:
The concealed carry of handguns should be prohibited
in areas for which state or federal law, licensing
requirements, or contracts require exclusion exclusively
at the discretion of the state or federal government, or
are required by a campus accrediting authority. Where
appropriate, signage must conform to the overriding
federal or state law requirements. Otherwise, notice
conforming to TPC § 30.06 must be provided.

Comment: In some instances, federal law prohibits
firearms from being carried in certain places. For
example, 10 C.F.R. § 73.81 bars a person from carrying
a firearm in a protected facility or installation, such as
our Nuclear Engineering Teaching Laboratory (NETL),
which is a Nuclear Regulatory Commission-licensed
facility. Similarly, state law or licensing requirements
may place restrictions on concealed carry. For example,
licensing standards for before- and after-school
programs for school-aged children and for child-care
centers prohibit on-premises firearms. See Texas Dept.
of Family and Protective Services, Licensing Division,
Minimum Standards for School-Age and Before or After-
School Programs §744.2607; Minimum Standards for
Child-Care Centers §746.3707. Finally, in rare instances,
the federal or state government may unilaterally impose
a restriction on the carrying of firearms, as may a
campus accrediting authority.

It appears to me that if this is allowed to stand, this is a big backdoor/camel's nose under the tent/loophole for universities/colleges to get carry banned campus wide. I don't see how an accreditation authority could override state law, but if state law requires state universities to maintain accreditation, then which prevails? Any one know the Education Code well enough?

[joelamosobadiah]

Open carry demonstrators plan 'mock shooting' during UT finals week.

http://www.chron.com/local/education/ca ... 686838.php

Dumb, stupid, crazy idiots, do these people work for Bloomberg?

"If they give us a problem about being there, we'll utilize the public property spaces near there," said Orsek. "I don't know they are being such buttholes. We made shirts just like they had."

They're so articulate in their responses as well....

[RHenriksen]

But if you're an employee of the university, can't they bar you from carrying as a condition of your employment? I know the city of Houston has to let the public carry in municipal buildings, but they deny their employees the same right.

This is the part I'm having trouble with:

• The occupant of an office to which he or she has
been solely assigned and that is not generally open
to the public should be permitted, at the occupant’s
discretion, to prohibit the concealed carry of a
handgun in that office.

• If the occupant’s duties ordinarily entail meeting
people who may be license holders, the occupant
must make reasonable arrangements to meet them in
another location at a convenient time.

This might not be a big issue for a lot of faculty and staff but for technology staff that have to go to many offices daily, that's an issue. But, just having the ability to carry all the way from the parking garage to my office is a big plus. Like a fellow CHL holder in my building said, "Baby Steps"!

[The Annoyed Man]

"Semi automatic handguns must be carried without a chambered round Of ammunition".

I doubt seriously that will fly.

What makes them think that a chambered semi auto is any more "dangerous" than a chambered revolver? Again...... rules being written by people who know nothing about guns.

[Papa_Tiger]

This definitely needs clean-up in the overall CHL law:
"Where Handguns Must Not Be Carried:
Regardless of S.B. 11, Texas law will continue to prohibit license holders from carrying handguns in certain on-campus locations. These include:
The grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a pre-K through 12 school or educational institution is being conducted. This would include, for example, the Blanton Museum of Art when a public school field trip is being conducted there."

If I'm not associated with the school activity, an area should not be off limits by statute if a group of school kids shows up. If I recall correctly, that was discussed somewhat during either the public testimony or on the floor of the House that a place where a field trip is taking place doesn't become off limits for a CHL holder when the school group shows up.

With respect to general prohibition in the dorms, how can they prohibit in certain rooms, except for parents? Either you have been notified by 30.06 (orally, in writing containing the statutory language, or via a sign containing the statutory language) and cannot remain or you haven't been effectively notified.

As far as I'm aware, the 30.06 notification does not allow exclusions for certain individuals with the exception of law enforcement, so how would a parent be legally able to walk past the 30.06 sign/language? Do they control access to the dorms such that nobody, except authorized guests can be admitted? I applaud their attempt at recognizing the rights of parents, however, I don't see how it works out in practice.

[ELB]

Further details:

They propose to basically forbid students to have guns in dorms. Visiting parents/others can carry, and carry would be permitted in common areas but not dorm rooms (sleeping quarters).

Carry will be permitted in "married housing", but the resident must have a gun locker or safe, minimum 16 gauge steel, fully enclosing the firearm(s). Here's the interesting part: it can't have a keyed lock:

c) have a high-strength locking system consisting
of a mechanical or electronic combination or
biometric lock, and not a key lock;

[mreed911]

With respect to general prohibition in the dorms, how can they prohibit in certain rooms, except for parents? Either you have been notified by 30.06 (orally, in writing containing the statutory language, or via a sign containing the statutory language) and cannot remain or you haven't been effectively notified.

As far as I'm aware, the 30.06 notification does not allow exclusions for certain individuals with the exception of law enforcement, so how would a parent be legally able to walk past the 30.06 sign/language? Do they control access to the dorms such that nobody, except authorized guests can be admitted? I applaud their attempt at recognizing the rights of parents, however, I don't see how it works out in practice.

They could do this in the student code of conduct or housing contract, but not through force of penal law.

[ELB]

This definitely needs clean-up in the overall CHL law:
"Where Handguns Must Not Be Carried:
Regardless of S.B. 11, Texas law will continue to prohibit license holders from carrying handguns in certain on-campus locations. These include:
The grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a pre-K through 12 school or educational institution is being conducted. This would include, for example, the Blanton Museum of Art when a public school field trip is being conducted there."

If I'm not associated with the school activity, an area should not be off limits by statute if a group of school kids shows up. If I recall correctly, that was discussed somewhat during either the public testimony or on the floor of the House that a place where a field trip is taking place doesn't become off limits for a CHL holder when the school group shows up.
...

Good catch, and I seem to recall that same discussion during the Legislative Session (altho there is a small possibility I simply read it here on the forum).

They like to use "analogy" to extent the no-carry areas.
-Hospitals are off-limits (I know I know only if posted), so by analogy, UTA wants to ban carry anywhere a patient is treated...
- In their words, pre-K-12 schools are off-limits, so any place on campus that might have children should be off-limits to carry (for the children!)
- Court rooms are off-limits, so any place that formal hearings for student or faculty or employee discipline are off-limits to carry

[ELB]

This is the part I'm having trouble with:

• The occupant of an office to which he or she has
been solely assigned and that is not generally open
to the public should be permitted, at the occupant’s
discretion, to prohibit the concealed carry of a
handgun in that office.

• If the occupant’s duties ordinarily entail meeting
people who may be license holders, the occupant
must make reasonable arrangements to meet them in
another location at a convenient time.

This might not be a big issue for a lot of faculty and staff but for technology staff that have to go to many offices daily, that's an issue. ...

Not to worry! They are concerned about it! Not about your rights or your safety, but about your structural inequality.

This recommended rule,
therefore, would have the overall effect of giving faculty
members more control over their work environment
than staff or students would enjoy. Our concern is
that this policy will perpetuate structural inequalities
between faculty and staff members at UT Austin.

However, you still outrank students:
(In the section about forbidding carry in the dorms, one of the exceptions is:)

Third, staff members, such as the building services
and maintenance staff, should be permitted to carry a
concealed handgun on or about their person while they
are discharging their employment responsibilities.

[ELB]

I find this appalling, if informative:

Every member of the Working Group – including
those who are gun owners and license holders – thinks
it would be best if guns were not allowed in classrooms.

(p 26)

But I do applaud that they recognized both the law and the obvious:

The primary on-campus activity for most of our more
than 50,000 students is going to class. If handguns were
banned from classrooms, license holders would have
to leave their handguns at home or in their cars every
day they go to class. Short of an outright prohibition of
handguns in all buildings – that is, a reversion to the state
of the law as it was before S.B. 11 was passed – we can
think of no measure that would more effectively prohibit
campus carry than designating classrooms as gunexclusion
zones.

[TXBO]

"Offices. The Working Group recommends:
• The occupant of an office to which he or she has
been solely assigned and that is not generally open
to the public should be permitted, at the occupant’s
discretion, to prohibit the concealed carry of a
handgun in that office.
• An office occupant who chooses to exercise this
discretion must provide oral notice that the concealed
carry of a handgun in the occupant’s office is
prohibited."

This looks like a very convenient way to unveil any license holders.

[mreed911]

• An office occupant who chooses to exercise this
discretion must provide oral notice that the concealed
carry of a handgun in the occupant’s office is
prohibited."

This looks like a very convenient way to unveil any license holders.

Do you really think a prof is going to make that speech EVERY time? And the student can just say, "okay, let's meet in a conference room."

[RHenriksen]

• An office occupant who chooses to exercise this
discretion must provide oral notice that the concealed
carry of a handgun in the occupant’s office is
prohibited."

This looks like a very convenient way to unveil any license holders.

Do you really think a prof is going to make that speech EVERY time? And the student can just say, "okay, let's meet in a conference room."

And the professor will freak out, lock himself in his office, start grading the student's papers harshly, etc etc etc.

[mreed911]

Do you really think a prof is going to make that speech EVERY time? And the student can just say, "okay, let's meet in a conference room."

And the professor will freak out, lock himself in his office, start grading the student's papers harshly, etc etc etc.

And the student will post negative feedback, give a negative review, etc. and the professor won't be considered for tenure, contract extension, etc., then the student will file a complaint with a relevant dean about being discriminated against... the kiss of death for college staff.

[RHenriksen]

Do you really think a prof is going to make that speech EVERY time? And the student can just say, "okay, let's meet in a conference room."

And the professor will freak out, lock himself in his office, start grading the student's papers harshly, etc etc etc.

And the student will post negative feedback, give a negative review, etc. and the professor won't be considered for tenure, contract extension, etc., then the student will file a complaint with a relevant dean about being discriminated against... the kiss of death for college staff.

Tenured professors won't care.
Discrimination only counts in academia for politically correct causes. 2A isn't one of those.