e-mail from student about road raging motorcyclist

[texanjoker]

Road rages are tricky, In my personal experience responding to many road rages, they may start one sided, but usually BOTH sides escalate the incident. Just one area I would question and comment on if I had responded would be the stopping...In this case it sounds as if the driver "stopped" and the MC ran into him. One would question did he stop in a normal manner, or brake check the guy as many do during a road rage. I wasn't there, don't know the facts. I do know it is good nobody got hurt and nobody went to jail.

[poppo]

The problem, with these stories is we always only hear one side of the story. For all we know the driver just slammed on his brakes when he saw a motorcycle closer than he liked with no prior encounter. Then when the bike driver comes over to ask what the heck, the driver pulls a gun while calling 911 to get his story in first. Not saying it didn't happen the way it was posted, but people have a way of posting things in the best light (for themselves). Personally, I would have just kept driving (not done the brake slam thing) and called 911 if things were really going down the way described.

[Purplehood]

I have encountered road-raging motorists a few times in the past.
I have found that a fairly-reliable method of defusing the situation (as in, they speed off and leave you to continue driving) is to simply put your cell-phone to your ear, even if you have Blue-tooth.
I have seen more than one woman passenger pound on the manic-drivers shoulder and apparently prompt him to quickly depart the area when they see the phone.

[OldCannon]

Imagine firing your gun inside your closed-up car without hearing protection.
Unless I saw the would-be intruder had a gun or until he actually breached the vehicle, I would probably not fire.

I've had a Steyr AUG discharge about 4 inches from my ear. Lost all my hearing and suffered severe headaches for about a month.

I'll take that over somebody that intends to do willful and grievous harm to me and my family. I agree, however, that _when_ to shoot demands a clear and present threat. Had the situation been me, I'd have called 911 and asked directions to the nearest police station and driven there.

[hounddog]

It would be great if we could all keep things under control at all times. But if you've ever ridden a bike and had someone bogart your space, it tends to get the adreniline flowing. We don't know all the details and the biker shouldn't have let his temper get the best of him. But, the car guy made it worse by totally ignoring him at the first of the encounter. He already said that he was packing. IMHO he should have cracked his window and asked what was wrong, had he done anything out of place. Naturally, having his hand on his gun, just in case. By acknowledging the other person, he may have been able to diffuse the situation quickly. If he had done something wrong, he could at least appologize. Like I said, we don't know all the details, but if you feel wronged and then ignored, I could see getting a little upset. There's two sides to every story.

[C-dub]

Greybeard, is Ron a friend of yours? Do you know him or her? This whole thing sounds fishy to me. Kind of like that infamous add that is supposed to be apologizing for scarring the dung out of some guy that was trying to rob him and his girlfriend when he pulled his Kimber .45 on him. Maybe it's just me, but the whole thing sounds made up. I apologize if it's real.

[nyj]

So, this student probably did something stupid (I ride, people do it every day), and (insert word) the guy off. Then he probably slammed on his brakes in a fit of 'brake checking.'

Tell him to drive better and watch for motorcycles.

[The Annoyed Man]

I've had a Steyr AUG discharge about 4 inches from my ear. Lost all my hearing and suffered severe headaches for about a month.

Mine was a 5" Model 29 about 4" from my left ear. That was in 1996 or '97. My left ear is still ringing as I write this. Had the same loss of hearing and headaches that took a while to go away.

[Zen]

Whether or not the driver did something stupid, that does not justify "road rage." I ride a bike, and if something happened that was illegal and put me into danger, I would call the cops (bluetooth) and follow at a safe distance. I've done this with possible drunk drivers.

if I were the driver and someone on a motorcycle was following me, I would let them. I would likely get on a freeway to avoid the stop signs/lights and see what happens and call the cops if it continued. I might even drive the guy to the nearest police department.

My role as a CHL holder is to not look for reasons to pull my gun, but rather to look at exhausting all options to reduce risk so that I never need to.

If the situation escalates, despite my efforts to mitigate the risks, and I feel my life at danger, I can pull my pistol. If I pull it, I'm mentally prepared to use it - period!

If I'm wrong in my judgement, then I will face the legal system and defend my actions the best I can.

I think in this situation the driver could have mitigated the risk, but didn't. That being said, that does not change, in my mind at least, his belief that he needed to pull his weapon. Hindsight is always 20/20 and we can always see options we didn't during the heat of the moment. A good defense lawyer will be able to cover that, but it will cost you. I'd rather it cost me in the wallet than in death.

[C-dub]

I've had a Steyr AUG discharge about 4 inches from my ear. Lost all my hearing and suffered severe headaches for about a month.

Mine was a 5" Model 29 about 4" from my left ear. That was in 1996 or '97. My left ear is still ringing as I write this. Had the same loss of hearing and headaches that took a while to go away.

My first shot from my M1 a couple months ago I had forgotten to put my ears on. Knew it right away. I think they stopped ringing a day or two later. I can't remember the last time before that when I fired off a shot without ear protection if ever.

[Pawpaw]

I've had a Steyr AUG discharge about 4 inches from my ear. Lost all my hearing and suffered severe headaches for about a month.

Mine was a 5" Model 29 about 4" from my left ear. That was in 1996 or '97. My left ear is still ringing as I write this. Had the same loss of hearing and headaches that took a while to go away.

Mine was a 12 gauge with a vented choke in the late 60's. We were dove hunting and scared up a covey of quail. The idiot rips of 5 shots so close I could feel the hot gasses on my face.

Have you ever seen a 12 gauge after it has been wrapped around a tree?

[srothstein]

The threat of force is justified in 9:04. It does not say a defense to prosecution. It says justified.

We all need to remember to read all sections of the law. Just like people forget to read all the way down to subsection I when they read 46.035, we need to read all of Chapter 9.

Section 9.02 says:

Sec. 9.02. JUSTIFICATION AS A DEFENSE. It is a defense to prosecution that the conduct in question is justified under this chapter.

[SewTexas]

OK, let's say it wasn't "Ron" let's say it was "Rhonda". Does it change things? She's got an angry guy coming up on the back of her car, she has no idea what she's done to make him mad but he's making alot of nasty gestures and he's been following her turns for quite a while, she stops, she doesn't want to drag this situation to the office with her and endanger the other women, she stops, he runs into her, now he's up and yanking off his helmet, and hitting her car with it, she's frightened, knows the cops can't get there in time to help, knows if he hits her window with the helmet he will break it, she pulls out her gun, he backs off, he can't leave because his bike is damaged from hitting her car, she calls the police.

I see nothing wrong. maybe she could have called the cops, but she was focused on the task at hand.

[Greybeard]

Questions: "Greybeard, is Ron a friend of yours? Do you know him or her?"

He did original license class with me years ago and at least one, maybe two renewals. Approaching retirement age, not known to be "attention seeker" nor any reason for me to believe fabricated.

[Purplehood]

It would be great if we could all keep things under control at all times. But if you've ever ridden a bike and had someone bogart your space, it tends to get the adreniline flowing. We don't know all the details and the biker shouldn't have let his temper get the best of him. But, the car guy made it worse by totally ignoring him at the first of the encounter. He already said that he was packing. IMHO he should have cracked his window and asked what was wrong, had he done anything out of place. Naturally, having his hand on his gun, just in case. By acknowledging the other person, he may have been able to diffuse the situation quickly. If he had done something wrong, he could at least appologize. Like I said, we don't know all the details, but if you feel wronged and then ignored, I could see getting a little upset. There's two sides to every story.

I totally disagree and have ridden Motorcycles since 1974. Ignoring is probably one of the better alternatives, assuming that you can pull it off.