what would you do?

[jmoney]

[/quote]

A good idea is to have a "throw down" wallet. Always carry your gun on your body.[/quote]


Yes, my instructor told us to do this and I agree. He showed us a shiny metal clip that looked very flashy, and it had a twenty wrapped around a thick wad of ones. It looked like payday to me. all in all it was like 40 bucks, and the clip was maybe 50 cents.

Children would complicate the situation for me, and I agree with the other posters in the idea of avoidance. Escape, avoid, deter has been my mindset, however. I have read far to many stories about people being compliant with criminals and seeing the outcomes. I have heard so many stories of people being stabbed/beaten/shot after handing over what the criminal wants. If I can throw down a wallet, real or phony to avoid a situation, absolutely I would not hesitate, I would toss it right in their face and get the hell out of there if I could find cover.

There is one thing that you need to consider though. Why is it that Police are trained to shoot if a firearm is pointed in their direction? Because they MUST assume that you have intent to use it. I believe the same thing, I will not be trying anything silly shots such as pelvis, foot, arm, finger, toe or any of that. Center mass center mass center mass, all in the thoracic cavity. If they are close enough, then I'm shooting for the nose.

What about the people behind/around?
--this has been something that has been driving me a little bit crazy, and is the reason why I am transitioning away from .40 cal and moving down to 9mm. Ballistics for 9mm are nearly identical in a functioning HP, and I shoot much better with 9mm as well.

At the end of the day, its all up to what you think you are capable of, but there is one thing that you should NEVER NEVER NEVER do, and that is hand your weapon to a criminal.

[speedsix]

...as long as it's a robbery, give it up for the sake of the others there...if rape or shooting starts, it's done got bad...deal with it the best you can and pray for the best outcome...as you squeeze the shots off...

[mamabearCali]

Something to consider....most people in a beauty salon will be seated (either in the beauticians' chair or waiting their turn)....and most small children are rather short......

....aim high chest/head and shoot like your life depends on it?....

Great point! I had not thought of that. Probably the worst direction to aim is downward. To be perfectly honest I am pretty sure I could hit the BG chest, but probably not his foot/pelvis. I am just not very confident that I could do it. So funny interesting theory (pelvis/foot) in that case goes out the window and I have to go for a sure hit--that means the chest area for me.

I have a question. If the above scenario ensued and a CHL-er pulled out a gun and shot the bad guys and killed them. Would there be any question about legality? Of course you save your life first (and your kids lives), and then deal with the police later. I am just fearful that an anti-gun prosecutor might try to say "they were just robbing them--they had not employed lethal force yet so Mrs. MamabearCali was not justified in putting four bullet holes into them." Any reassurance on that?

[seamusTX]

I am truly, deeply concerned that this question exists.

Texas law defines robbery:

PC 29.02. ROBBERY. (a) A person commits an offense if, in the course of committing theft as defined in Chapter 31 and with intent to obtain or maintain control of the property, he:
(1) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causes bodily injury to another; or
(2) intentionally or knowingly threatens or places another in fear of imminent bodily injury or death.

You can see how prosecutors charge robbery. Any use of force, even shoving or pulling on a purse, makes it aggravated robbery.

Then Texas law gives the justifications for use of deadly force:

PC 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

Done deal. No grand jury would indict a woman for shooting a robber of a beauty salon.

Where are these supposed anti-gun DAs? Rosenthal was forced into retirement, and even he did not prosecute legitimate self-defense cases.

- Jim

[mamabearCali]

Thanks Jim for the clarification and reassurance. I am actually not from TX (well I was born in Hondo TX and I visit as often as I can--does that count as Texan? ) so I don't know TX law as well as I know VA law (where I spend most of my time as an adult). As far as prosecutors--I don't' know those either, but I am so glad to be reassured on the yes you can shoot the sorry bad guys (trying to keep it rated G around here!) and not have to worry about being prosecuted.

[v-rog]

This is a great clear answer. It's a reminder for me to keep re-reading the TCH laws manual. Thanks.

I am truly, deeply concerned that this question exists.

Texas law defines robbery:

PC 29.02. ROBBERY. (a) A person commits an offense if, in the course of committing theft as defined in Chapter 31 and with intent to obtain or maintain control of the property, he:
(1) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causes bodily injury to another; or
(2) intentionally or knowingly threatens or places another in fear of imminent bodily injury or death.

You can see how prosecutors charge robbery. Any use of force, even shoving or pulling on a purse, makes it aggravated robbery.

Then Texas law gives the justifications for use of deadly force:

PC 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

Done deal. No grand jury would indict a woman for shooting a robber of a beauty salon.

Where are these supposed anti-gun DAs? Rosenthal was forced into retirement, and even he did not prosecute legitimate self-defense cases.

- Jim

[tbrown]

In addition, there's this gem from the Castle Doctrine. (The real one, not MPA.)

The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is presumed to be reasonable if...

[seamusTX]

Unfortunately that defense is not available to a customer of a business or a person who is in a public place.

- Jim

[tbrown]

I don't see that in the law. Can you point it out?

I see

or (C) was committing or attempting to commit an offense described by Subsection (a)(2)(B)

[seamusTX]

Probably you are right. It has been four years now, and we don't see prosecutions of bona fide defenders.

- Jim

[tbrown]

and we don't see prosecutions of bona fide defenders.

That's true. For all the silly restrictions on carrying a gun in public here, Texas is pretty good about citizens using a gun when it's necessary to stop a violent criminal.

[SewTexas]

last I heard the worst of these 2 BG's had 4? counts of aggravated robbery? or maybe assault?...dang now I can't remember which, one for each of the children, and one for my friend, and they hadn't even gotten to the guy they hit....so I bet it was robbery...he would be assault, wouldn't he. So yeh, shooting him wouldn't get you charged. But I think I'm in the group that wouldn't shoot unless things started going 'bad'.

LOL> here's one for you...the BG says he's sorry he scared the kids...Oh, well, that makes everything ok, if you're sorry...geee,

[thatTexasLady]

Well dang, if he's sorry we better let him go. Good grief!

[threoh8]

Sounds like a bad situation to start any fight.

The fight started once the perpetrators entered the room.

[tbrown]

The fight started once the perpetrators entered the room.

Well said. Many people have been hurt or killed because they refused to recognize the fight is on.