What to practice to improve score
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function12
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Re: What to practice to improve score
Dry fire, dry fire, and use paper plates for targets.
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Re: What to practice to improve score
Well in the last 2 weeks, I've done about 900 "rounds" of dryfire (with snapcaps) and 100 rounds live. So far, things seem to be improving. The dime and nickle stay put through the draw and usually on the actual strike. Class is a week from tomorrow, so I'll try to hit it as much as I can this week.
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gringo pistolero
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Re: What to practice to improve score
I'm trying to picture how that works.newTexan wrote:The dime and nickle stay put through the draw
I sincerely apologize to anybody I offended by suggesting the Second Amendment also applies to The People who don't work for the government.
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sjfcontrol
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Re: What to practice to improve score
Supergluegringo pistolero wrote:I'm trying to picture how that works.newTexan wrote:The dime and nickle stay put through the draw
Range Rule: "The front gate lock is not an acceptable target."
Never Forget.
Never Forget.
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gigag04
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Re: What to practice to improve score
Dry fire, Training classes.
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison
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gigag04
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Re: What to practice to improve score
Swat buddy/instructor friend uses 3x5 or 4x6 notecards.function12 wrote:Dry fire, dry fire, and use paper plates for targets.
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison
Re: What to practice to improve score
lolsjfcontrol wrote:Supergluegringo pistolero wrote:I'm trying to picture how that works.newTexan wrote:The dime and nickle stay put through the draw
Ok. Never type before you've had the required amount of coffee. I meant it stays put through the trigger manipulation up to the shot. Taking out the slack and the press.
Re: What to practice to improve score
To the OP, posts is in general, but hope it helps some. GLW your CHL Renewal. :)
imho/fwiw:
After some basic safety & handling education/knowledge, run through, Majority of shooters can acquire the proper sight picture . . . . .some faster than others.
Dry fire with snap caps is a good way to train the fundamentals towards the finish press. Just make sure that your dry fire practice is building on the right skills, not checking off "I did it today".
With that said, most inaccuracy or consistency comes from the trigger press. Dont snatch the trigger, dont slam the trigger, and its not a surprise . . . If it is a surprise you need to get more familiar with your sidearm = proper practice. "the surprise" thing is taught to beginners so they are fluid on the trigger and see it through. Beginners have a tendency to relax off the trigger as soon as the shot goes off. Even a Bench Rest shooter with a few ounce trigger "knows" when the trigger breaks. AND IMHO: There should not be ANY "Surprises" on your side after a firearm is deployed/drawn in a HD/SD situation, will not look good for your defense. Know were your shot will go, Center Mass is for qualification, POA/POI is what "your" standard should be up to 25 yards, or strive to achieve. Better if you know even further. But, most SD situation will happen within 5 yards +/-. I still live by "better to have & not need then need & not have"
"slow is smooth, smooth is fast"
Its not "just" how quickly you can present a sidearm, but how smoothly can you do it W/ Control.
* Everything starts from the draw on, Know/Learn/Get educated on the proper grip for each firearm: Semi-Auto or Revolver. Fumbling the master grip, re-gripping, shaking to get the front sight acquired and slapping off to get the shot off to make up time from the fumbling with the grip = IT CAN Look darn Fast to some, just dont look at the target = You might not even see a hit.
The "pros": They do smooth = fast. What I mean: They will break down the "movement" NOT STEPS and see where speed can be applied with smoother but faster movement. They will slow down where fine motor skills are needed, front sight tracking, the trigger press. Honestly I wouldnt call it slowing down, but putting extra focus on finer portions of the final picture. Steps are great for teaching someone form, as its hard to remember one movement from start to finish, but fluid movement is how we function, steps take time, smooth movement is speed with a clear mind.
You take the steps and create A movement, think of a baseball swing: A coach, whomever that may be, would have broke down, grip, stance, form, downward movement, follow through and all the why here/there and the reaction to impact with the ball. As you grow older or more experienced, a swing coach will get down to where you tense, what muscles do what, all connected to the "movement" this is of course on top of the basics. Being basic fundamentals.
For Accuracy, Everything comes down to First: Clear/Crisp FRONT Sight . . . . Second, The Trigger Press. Key Point" FOLLOW Through
Follow Up: Same as above, but the proper stance and grip will determine movement and how quickly you get back on target to repeat above.
Bulls Eye: [Square Range]
Any trigger, follow through in one continuous motion & after the shot breaks = Follow Through, Do Not Relax off the Trigger as soon as the shot breaks, See it through. Snatching the trigger or improper follow through will create those "flyers" "I call bull" shots. With finger pressed and movement coming to a stop, pause, relax/reset, front sight, follow through, after the break, hold. NOTE: The "PAUSE/HOLD is a part of a process for proper skill building, meaning following through the motion for each shot. You will see yourself decrease this amount you hold through the cycling of each round as familiarity grows with the way your firearm operates and your form becomes second nature. Repeated follow up rapid shots off recoil impulse "working with the gun" come at a later time, some say advanced training, whatever you call it, need the proper base first. To add, Dont Bear Hug the Frame or Trigger. . . Support Wrap the Frame as much as possible with the proper grip/form. The trigger shouldnt be smashed, enough pressure for fluid motion through the action.
Triggers with a pronounced reset exp: Glock: In Addition to the Above, learn the reset of the trigger, your follow up shots/splits will decrease. Key for me is not working up to the wall and working past that wall, but starting at the wall and following through.
Revolvers, especially those with any sort of trigger ___, I dont just mean the SA break but the Double Action weight. Proper Let Up and Roll through is critical, You can short stroke the action and fail to align the next cylinder. Reason Mr. Jerry Miculek has stated he doesn't like a light rebound spring. The force/resistance pushing your finger forward is actually a good thing. Also to light of a trigger job will fail to light off hard primers consistently. A good deburring to smooth the action of grit in its motion is more than adequate in a defense piece/tool.
1911: A lot of this/that . . . . what Im about to type is this/that, meaning "we are on the internet, seek "PROPER" Training, I mean real training, from those that specialize in this/that platform.
The 1911 is a firearm YEAH We Know, I am saying/mean firearm in a way that the 1911 shares the same commonalities: Barrel, magazines, shoot bullets, Sights, whatever it may be: Yeah, Its a gun.
BUT, One needs to learn the actions of this weapon system. The Trigger Especially: Its extreme short reset and to most feels almost non-existent like no reset at all. Press in One SMOOTH Positive Motion & the FOLLOW Through is so key in this. Its not mythical, its not magical, but it needs A LOT of attention, not just the 1911 but A LOT more from the shooter. In order to be proficient with the 1911 you need to know everything that surrounds that SA trigger & getting to it. Of course the same basic fundamentals apply to this platform as it does to any.
* ^ Quick touch on snap caps, they do help, even with striker fired firearms. Can you shoot without snap caps, YES. Will you see anything break right off the bat, 99% No. BUT, extended periods of dry fire without the firing pin/striker being cushioned will give on one part or another. NO bull on this, seen it first hand, from roll pins, to FP tips, Striker Tips, Slide Breech. . . . . How many sessions/clicks does it take = A WHOLE LOT. Can you avoid dry-firing, NO. Why? If you compete or train in a class setting, When you make clear, You will have to make Safe = You have to depress on a empty chamber. Honestly, How Cares, these are just tools. Things wear, things break, things set, things get thrown out. Mags are just like springs . . . once the mag exceeds its service life: They Get MARKED FOR Reload drills, malfunction drills, or THE HAMMER and thrown out. Do your fellow American a favor and look after them and their loved ones, DONT SELL CRAP Mags!!! Dont use Crap mags, your life and those around you deserve you carry functional RELIABLE gear.
Just to add for the most important thing to keep in mind: KEEP YOUR AMMO SEPERATE, I MEAN OFF the Table, Out of the Room if you can, while practicing, Everything looks alike when and no telling whats what, Good Lighting in the Room and Check/Press Check before each run.
Firearms Wear: "Wear from Use: ALL GOOD. Wear From Abuse: B__S__T!" Wear out a parts: Simple Replace Them: Wear out a Frame: BRONZE IT. You spent a Cadillac worth of ammo feeding it: Get another, you deserve it.
Okay, back to the practice fwiw:
The CHL range qualification portion of the test gives you plenty of time to "not rush" anything and achieve the proper "Front Sight" Picture. Front Sight being CRISP, I Mean, Edge to Edge Crisp. The Rear sight is a reference point. Do not try to focus on both, you'll get the picture, but a fuzzy one. Make every shot as if it were the first and last, meaning FS: Crisp, Trigger Smooth from Start to Finish. See your shots through your sights, not dropping the gun to "check".
As for the coin dry fire drill off the front sight, try it at the range as well . . . . 1/2 way through your range session. Many are surprised how much they flinch after being subjected to repetitive recoil. Fix through if needed, and finish off each session with the best group you can pull out.
Need to add more: BE SELECTIVE with Training and whom you get trained by. Its your hard earned money, as well as your choice.
Getting off my horse/soap box: Morning coffee kicking in full effect
"Carry On"
imho/fwiw:
After some basic safety & handling education/knowledge, run through, Majority of shooters can acquire the proper sight picture . . . . .some faster than others.
Dry fire with snap caps is a good way to train the fundamentals towards the finish press. Just make sure that your dry fire practice is building on the right skills, not checking off "I did it today".
With that said, most inaccuracy or consistency comes from the trigger press. Dont snatch the trigger, dont slam the trigger, and its not a surprise . . . If it is a surprise you need to get more familiar with your sidearm = proper practice. "the surprise" thing is taught to beginners so they are fluid on the trigger and see it through. Beginners have a tendency to relax off the trigger as soon as the shot goes off. Even a Bench Rest shooter with a few ounce trigger "knows" when the trigger breaks. AND IMHO: There should not be ANY "Surprises" on your side after a firearm is deployed/drawn in a HD/SD situation, will not look good for your defense. Know were your shot will go, Center Mass is for qualification, POA/POI is what "your" standard should be up to 25 yards, or strive to achieve. Better if you know even further. But, most SD situation will happen within 5 yards +/-. I still live by "better to have & not need then need & not have"
"slow is smooth, smooth is fast"
Its not "just" how quickly you can present a sidearm, but how smoothly can you do it W/ Control.
* Everything starts from the draw on, Know/Learn/Get educated on the proper grip for each firearm: Semi-Auto or Revolver. Fumbling the master grip, re-gripping, shaking to get the front sight acquired and slapping off to get the shot off to make up time from the fumbling with the grip = IT CAN Look darn Fast to some, just dont look at the target = You might not even see a hit.
The "pros": They do smooth = fast. What I mean: They will break down the "movement" NOT STEPS and see where speed can be applied with smoother but faster movement. They will slow down where fine motor skills are needed, front sight tracking, the trigger press. Honestly I wouldnt call it slowing down, but putting extra focus on finer portions of the final picture. Steps are great for teaching someone form, as its hard to remember one movement from start to finish, but fluid movement is how we function, steps take time, smooth movement is speed with a clear mind.
You take the steps and create A movement, think of a baseball swing: A coach, whomever that may be, would have broke down, grip, stance, form, downward movement, follow through and all the why here/there and the reaction to impact with the ball. As you grow older or more experienced, a swing coach will get down to where you tense, what muscles do what, all connected to the "movement" this is of course on top of the basics. Being basic fundamentals.
For Accuracy, Everything comes down to First: Clear/Crisp FRONT Sight . . . . Second, The Trigger Press. Key Point" FOLLOW Through
Follow Up: Same as above, but the proper stance and grip will determine movement and how quickly you get back on target to repeat above.
Bulls Eye: [Square Range]
Any trigger, follow through in one continuous motion & after the shot breaks = Follow Through, Do Not Relax off the Trigger as soon as the shot breaks, See it through. Snatching the trigger or improper follow through will create those "flyers" "I call bull" shots. With finger pressed and movement coming to a stop, pause, relax/reset, front sight, follow through, after the break, hold. NOTE: The "PAUSE/HOLD is a part of a process for proper skill building, meaning following through the motion for each shot. You will see yourself decrease this amount you hold through the cycling of each round as familiarity grows with the way your firearm operates and your form becomes second nature. Repeated follow up rapid shots off recoil impulse "working with the gun" come at a later time, some say advanced training, whatever you call it, need the proper base first. To add, Dont Bear Hug the Frame or Trigger. . . Support Wrap the Frame as much as possible with the proper grip/form. The trigger shouldnt be smashed, enough pressure for fluid motion through the action.
Triggers with a pronounced reset exp: Glock: In Addition to the Above, learn the reset of the trigger, your follow up shots/splits will decrease. Key for me is not working up to the wall and working past that wall, but starting at the wall and following through.
Revolvers, especially those with any sort of trigger ___, I dont just mean the SA break but the Double Action weight. Proper Let Up and Roll through is critical, You can short stroke the action and fail to align the next cylinder. Reason Mr. Jerry Miculek has stated he doesn't like a light rebound spring. The force/resistance pushing your finger forward is actually a good thing. Also to light of a trigger job will fail to light off hard primers consistently. A good deburring to smooth the action of grit in its motion is more than adequate in a defense piece/tool.
1911: A lot of this/that . . . . what Im about to type is this/that, meaning "we are on the internet, seek "PROPER" Training, I mean real training, from those that specialize in this/that platform.
The 1911 is a firearm YEAH We Know, I am saying/mean firearm in a way that the 1911 shares the same commonalities: Barrel, magazines, shoot bullets, Sights, whatever it may be: Yeah, Its a gun.
BUT, One needs to learn the actions of this weapon system. The Trigger Especially: Its extreme short reset and to most feels almost non-existent like no reset at all. Press in One SMOOTH Positive Motion & the FOLLOW Through is so key in this. Its not mythical, its not magical, but it needs A LOT of attention, not just the 1911 but A LOT more from the shooter. In order to be proficient with the 1911 you need to know everything that surrounds that SA trigger & getting to it. Of course the same basic fundamentals apply to this platform as it does to any.
* ^ Quick touch on snap caps, they do help, even with striker fired firearms. Can you shoot without snap caps, YES. Will you see anything break right off the bat, 99% No. BUT, extended periods of dry fire without the firing pin/striker being cushioned will give on one part or another. NO bull on this, seen it first hand, from roll pins, to FP tips, Striker Tips, Slide Breech. . . . . How many sessions/clicks does it take = A WHOLE LOT. Can you avoid dry-firing, NO. Why? If you compete or train in a class setting, When you make clear, You will have to make Safe = You have to depress on a empty chamber. Honestly, How Cares, these are just tools. Things wear, things break, things set, things get thrown out. Mags are just like springs . . . once the mag exceeds its service life: They Get MARKED FOR Reload drills, malfunction drills, or THE HAMMER and thrown out. Do your fellow American a favor and look after them and their loved ones, DONT SELL CRAP Mags!!! Dont use Crap mags, your life and those around you deserve you carry functional RELIABLE gear.
Just to add for the most important thing to keep in mind: KEEP YOUR AMMO SEPERATE, I MEAN OFF the Table, Out of the Room if you can, while practicing, Everything looks alike when and no telling whats what, Good Lighting in the Room and Check/Press Check before each run.
Firearms Wear: "Wear from Use: ALL GOOD. Wear From Abuse: B__S__T!" Wear out a parts: Simple Replace Them: Wear out a Frame: BRONZE IT. You spent a Cadillac worth of ammo feeding it: Get another, you deserve it.
Okay, back to the practice fwiw:
The CHL range qualification portion of the test gives you plenty of time to "not rush" anything and achieve the proper "Front Sight" Picture. Front Sight being CRISP, I Mean, Edge to Edge Crisp. The Rear sight is a reference point. Do not try to focus on both, you'll get the picture, but a fuzzy one. Make every shot as if it were the first and last, meaning FS: Crisp, Trigger Smooth from Start to Finish. See your shots through your sights, not dropping the gun to "check".
As for the coin dry fire drill off the front sight, try it at the range as well . . . . 1/2 way through your range session. Many are surprised how much they flinch after being subjected to repetitive recoil. Fix through if needed, and finish off each session with the best group you can pull out.
Need to add more: BE SELECTIVE with Training and whom you get trained by. Its your hard earned money, as well as your choice.
Getting off my horse/soap box: Morning coffee kicking in full effect
"Carry On"
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JALLEN
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Re: What to practice to improve score
http://grayguns.com/dry-fire-secrets-of-the-pros/
Bruce has been on several factory teams and has a well-respected gunsmithing operation as well as shooting classes on selected weekends around the country.
If you get a chance to attend one of his courses, go. It is very worth while.
Bruce has been on several factory teams and has a well-respected gunsmithing operation as well as shooting classes on selected weekends around the country.
If you get a chance to attend one of his courses, go. It is very worth while.
Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.
Re: What to practice to improve score
+1 Agree, Mr. Bruce Gray is TOP NOTCH with anything firearms related.JALLEN wrote:http://grayguns.com/dry-fire-secrets-of-the-pros/
Bruce has been on several factory teams and has a well-respected gunsmithing operation as well as shooting classes on selected weekends around the country.
If you get a chance to attend one of his courses, go. It is very worth while.
A great fast read with a wealth of knowledge hitting on so many key points.
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A-R
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Re: What to practice to improve score
Practice at 15 yards on a target the size of or smaller than the 8 ring hit zone. If you can hit at 15 you'll easily hit the others at 3 & 7 yards.
Load you mag full. Rack one in the chamber, then drop the mag. Fire the chambered round concentrating on all the fundamentals - trigger squeeze, grip, stance, sight alignment, breathing etc. then manually rack the slide and do the EXACT same thing with a dry fire - concentrate on all the same fundamentals but LOOK for problems, flinches, especially concentrating on front sight movement as trigger breaks on empty chamber (remember minor trembling/movement is normal, you're looking for big flinches).
Then repeat this dry fire procedure 4 more time for a total of one live round and 5 dry fires. Then load mag, rack in another live round, drop mag and repeat the 1 live/5 dry sequence. Continue repeating until you've run through the entire magazine.
Do this first EVERY range visit. You will begin to notice your errors and learn how to correct them with this method because of the constant repetition. It will also reinforce discipline/muscle memory.
Load you mag full. Rack one in the chamber, then drop the mag. Fire the chambered round concentrating on all the fundamentals - trigger squeeze, grip, stance, sight alignment, breathing etc. then manually rack the slide and do the EXACT same thing with a dry fire - concentrate on all the same fundamentals but LOOK for problems, flinches, especially concentrating on front sight movement as trigger breaks on empty chamber (remember minor trembling/movement is normal, you're looking for big flinches).
Then repeat this dry fire procedure 4 more time for a total of one live round and 5 dry fires. Then load mag, rack in another live round, drop mag and repeat the 1 live/5 dry sequence. Continue repeating until you've run through the entire magazine.
Do this first EVERY range visit. You will begin to notice your errors and learn how to correct them with this method because of the constant repetition. It will also reinforce discipline/muscle memory.
Re: What to practice to improve score
Visited the range today (Best of the West), and took advantage of their 10 yard pistol range. (They say it's 10 yards, but it seems more like 7 to me.)
Attached are pics from my first 5 shots, my first 10 shots, and the target at the end of all 100 rounds that I fired at it. Overall, I was pretty happy. I'm a bit left overall, but everything is on the paper. The paper is 10 inches wide (the grid lines are 1 inch apart), which I believe is narrower than the 5-pt zone on the CHL target. I thought I'd toss this out there in case anyone has feedback or advice to tighten things up in the next couple days.
Attached are pics from my first 5 shots, my first 10 shots, and the target at the end of all 100 rounds that I fired at it. Overall, I was pretty happy. I'm a bit left overall, but everything is on the paper. The paper is 10 inches wide (the grid lines are 1 inch apart), which I believe is narrower than the 5-pt zone on the CHL target. I thought I'd toss this out there in case anyone has feedback or advice to tighten things up in the next couple days.
- Attachments
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- Final result - 100 rnds
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- First 10 rounds
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- First 5 rounds
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sjfcontrol
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Re: What to practice to improve score
Why didn't you just get yourself a CHL target or two? When I was practicing for my instructor's cert, I shot CHL targets at 15 yards. Figured if I could pass with all 50 rounds at 15 yards, the actual test would be a slam-dunk.
Range Rule: "The front gate lock is not an acceptable target."
Never Forget.
Never Forget.
Re: What to practice to improve score
You know, I wish I'd thought of that. In this case, I just used what the range provided. You're right though, using the actual CHL target would have been a good idea.sjfcontrol wrote:Why didn't you just get yourself a CHL target or two? When I was practicing for my instructor's cert, I shot CHL targets at 15 yards. Figured if I could pass with all 50 rounds at 15 yards, the actual test would be a slam-dunk.
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flechero
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Re: What to practice to improve score
Not to be cliche' but the chl test is pass/fail. The test you may someday face on the street will be much more serious than that. Train for the latter, and the former will take care of itself. Anyone who is prepared for a street confrontation will score well on the chl test. The reverse is not necessarily true. 