question re: HB1815

[ScottDLS]

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

I was taught this meant you could only have your gun in the car under MPA if the car was yours or you were driving it--not just a passenger in someone else's car. Under CHL, it is ok. The OP does not have a CHL. Is this wrong? The person who answered this for me originally was a Fort Worth PD officer who teaches CHL.

Well, this brings up a whole bunch of interesting (and largely academic) scenarios....

1) My son (21 years old) drives me to the courthouse annex for something. I (as a CHL holder) disarm and leave the gun in the car and he goes and gets a bite to eat while I wait in the vehicle registration line. I guess since he is driving, he's in control of the vehicle. So I'd imagine this is fine. (he does NOT have a CHL yet).

2) I'm driving with my 21 year old son and disarm for some reason. He is the passenger. Is he allowed to remain the vehicle while in the parking lot? I guess this is ok also.

3) what about the same as above but with my 18 year old son driving me or as a passenger in a parking lot? Seems ok since he is over 18.

4) What if I'm with my 11 year old son, I disarm and go into the court house. He's a passenger, but the gun is left in the car. I'd imagine in this case that's a problem since he's < 18 and I'm allowing unsupervised access to a handgun.

I'm sure we can come up with an infinite number of scenarios with combinations of different types of folks.

And I'm not really requesting answers so much as illustrating that there are a bunch of scenarios associated with the car carry that aren't explicitly covered by the law. Seems to me the operating principle is 1) somebody who can possess a gun. 2) in control of the vehicle 3) not doing anything illegal at the time.

My $0.02...

1,2,3 seem fine since as soon as you exit the vehicle, your sons are "in control" of the vehicle if they stay behind.

#4... Are you going to leave your 11 year old in the Courthouse parking lot by himself...and "in control" of the vehicle?

Take him with you and leave the gun and it is no longer "on or about your (or his) person". Or alternatively, lock it in the trunk and leave him in the car(with the valet key?)...

It is no longer "on or about his person"...

[schufflerbot]

thanks for the feedback, folks - it's appreciated.

especially the news of the river flow... or the lack thereof... we have friends who are already there and theyve sent pics of our area... plenty of baby falls-a-flowin to keep us cool while we post up in chairs.

the tubing, however, was reported as 'almost nonexistent.'

i'll talk to my buddy who's driving and see what he thinks about it. he is a LEO afterall... just wanted to get yalls thoughts.

[TexasGal]

Please post what he had to say. We are always interested in a LEO's perspective.
And have a great time on your trip!

[RPB]

ohhhhhh... now i understand the confusion, thanks for the clarification!!

we're going to be floating the guadalupe river, staying at a campground near the 'Lazy L&L.' i'll do some research to see if it's one of the Army COE territories - thanks for the heads up on that... would have been a pretty crappy way to end a vacation, lol.

so, regarding the MPA - if the owner of a firearm is a passenger, not the driver, is the possession of a concealed handgun still covered?

i cant find any verbage other than, '...owned or being operated by...' and to me, that doesn't sound like a passenger is covered.

but, if we're splitting driving duties... i would think it would apply.

Lazy L&L Campground has been family owned and operated
Lazy L and L Guadalupe River RV Tent Camping and Tubes on the Canyon Lake
http://www.swf-wc.usace.army.mil/canyon/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Fort Worth District welcomes you to Canyon Lake,

The memo link is here viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34417&p=405278&hili ... ch#p405278" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Asked for an exception for ACOE property..DENIED
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36766&p=435790&hili ... my#p435790" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Have you called your U.S Representative to change this and support the House Resolution HR 1865 by Representative Bob Gibbs mentioned above?

3. 36 C.F.R. § 327.13 remains in full force and effect. It will continue to prohibit loaded concealed weapons on Corps properties regardless of the new law and notwithstanding any contrary provisions of State law. It remains Corps policy that we will not honor State-issued concealed weapon permits on our facilities and that District Commanders do not have discretion under 36 C.F.R. § 327.13(a)(4) to create blanket exceptions to this policy. A change of this nature to Corps regulations in 36 C.F.R. Part 327 would require formal rulemaking procedures under the Administrative Procedures Act (5 U.S.C. §§ 551-706).

The above applies not only to prohibit CHLs, but any guns in cars of unlicensed MPA/Motorist Protection Act carriers in their parking areas ... as well as guns in boats under the newly passed HB 25 in "their" waters .... even if it's a State Park on land leased from the USACE.

So, some people thinking they are legal under Texas law... are in fact becoming criminals under Federal Regulation, whether licensed or not.

E-mail/call/FAX your U.S Representative to change this and support the House Resolution HR 1865 by Representative Bob Gibbs. (Before someone "accidentally" becomes a "test case" and not having money to fight the Feds, loses.)

[RPB]

Firearms are illegal on USACE property/waters, even if you don't see the invisible boundary painted on the water.
Even if leased to a park etc but owned by "them".
Even if you carry under the TEXAS MPA.
Even if you have a CHL.
US Army Corps of Engineers does not care what State Law says.
Of course the LEO can have a gun.
See my two posts on this thread, and the links in those twp posts
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=45581" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's a map, notice how their red line "boundaries" go a ways up river from the lake, don't cross the invisible boundary
http://www.swf-wc.usace.army.mil/canyon ... p_2011.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here are parks to avoid, don't even park in one's parking area with a gun in the car
http://www.swf-wc.usace.army.mil/canyon ... n/Maps.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[schufflerbot]

after talking to my traveling buddy (LEO) i decided to take the gun and just leave it in the car. the way he understands the MPA (and he admittedly hadn't reviewed the law in a while) is that as long as you can legally own the weapon and are travelling in a private vehicle, it's ok. he said it would be the officer's decision, obviously, to make a stink or not - but he thinks i'd be ok since im in the company of a police officer. however, neither of us were aware of the strict regulations regarding the USACOE and their property - we thought this was privately owned land and therefore ok to licensed carry... or MPA and leave in the car once you arrive.

thanks for all the info pertaining to the laws, i wont be making that mistake again.

luckily for me, there were no incidents and therefore no problems with MPA.

[blackmesa]

1,2,3 seem fine since as soon as you exit the vehicle, your sons are "in control" of the vehicle if they stay behind.

#4... Are you going to leave your 11 year old in the Courthouse parking lot by himself...and "in control" of the vehicle?

Don't forget about 46.13 in the penal code.

[ScottDLS]

1,2,3 seem fine since as soon as you exit the vehicle, your sons are "in control" of the vehicle if they stay behind.

#4... Are you going to leave your 11 year old in the Courthouse parking lot by himself...and "in control" of the vehicle?

Don't forget about 46.13 in the penal code.

Technically not a crime unless the child gains access... not has access. However, in my post I suggested locking the firearm in the trunk. Actaully, I sugessted not leaving an 11 year old in the car at all.