Accidental Discharge in Houston Restaurant

[RPB]

the clip I had on a rifle clipped onto the rear of the cartridges, but didn't enclose them in a surrounding carrier, the magazines in my pistols fully enclose the cartridges, the magazines my other rifles do too

[LongHairedRedneck]

Case and point for having a pocket holster to secure your weapon so its not just floating around in your pocket

[The Annoyed Man]

Back in my ER days, we once treated a guy who shot himself in the butt when his .25 caliber pistol fell out of his back pocket and discharged when it hit floor.... ....straight up into his buttock.

There were so many witnesses and he felt so stupid about the whole thing that he didn't even try to make up a big lie about how it happened. Most disappointing. The lies you usually hear in a situation like this are most entertaining.

[Purplehood]

Case and point for having a pocket holster to secure your weapon so its not just floating around in your pocket

I use one expressly to avoid sticking my booger-hook in the trigger while fumbling around in my pocket for keys, etc.

[jamisjockey]

Another case to be made for carrying a proper weapon in a proper holster. Pocket carry is for TV.

[Chrispy]

I just saw this on the local news.

http://www.khou.com/news/local/HPD-Woma ... 43634.html

The terminology police here will soon be berating you for not titling your post "negligent" discharge. Whatever... Tomato, tom-ah-to...(For fans of my current Avatar.... TOE-MAY-TOE). Clip, magazine... Verbal, oral...

Interestingly the story says the woman was shot in the "bu--". Not the most professional reference to the posterior. What's with people carrying these junk guns that go off when you drop 'em? My Raven and Jennings .25's, just have the CLIP fall out of them when I drop them. They never go off (so far).

The reason for that is because many folks casually dismiss the event... and apply the all encompassing definition of "accidental" : An unintended event!

The purpose of CORRECTLY calling an avoidable incident like this one a "Negligent Discharge" is to assign responsibility to the person(s) involved. It is an important distinction!

Any weapon not secured in such fashion that it will not drop from clothing/concealment is clearly negligence. It is THIS kind of nonsense that really gains traction with the anti's, and rightfully so.

I'm actually glad that you guys educated me on that term. I see people mention NDs all the time on this and other firearm forums. I knew what they were referring to but for some reason never put two and two together to figure out what the N stood for.

Negligent is definitely a better term for it. Guns don't just accidentally fire (or at least very very rarely). If you are in possession of a firearm and it goes off after it was dropped, in your pocket, or however it happened, you are the one that is responsible, or negligent.

[PBratton]

Gas anyone yet determined if the place was properly signed or not?

My guess was that the manager was talking about the TABC sign when he mentioned that no guns were allowed...

[rm9792]

Derringer

That brings up something I rarely mention

Some (many) Derringers don't have trigger guards, some do.
I prefer a trigger guard.
Although this incident appeared to be a gun without a drop safety, Chron says it dropped to the floor and fired. or .... the lack of a trigger guard might have increased the chance the trigger struck the floor at an angle somehow ...

I prefer a trigger guard.

**Sounds like he pocket carried n a coat, unholstered maybe, since the gun "fell out" of his coat pocket while moving his coat ....

A derringer has no need for a trigger guard. They are carried hammer down and the trigger is SAO. you could bang that trigger with a hammer and it can't fire the gun just like a 1911 with the hammer down. What can happen is the hammer impacts something in a fall and that transfers energy to the firing pin. I don't believe they have transfer bars or anything, just an alternating flat strip between firing pins.

[skub]

Clip and magazine are two different things.

A clip fully recesses into the weapon, where a magazine only partially recesses.

My XD-40 has a clip, which fully recesses into the handle of the pistol.

My AR-15 has a magazine, which extends past the magazine well.

I'll let you off with a warning this time, but the next Terminology Police Officer may not be as understanding.

So, you stick a clip in the magazine well of your XD-40?
http://www.midwayusa.com/guntecdictiona ... ermID=3231
http://www.gunreports.com/gow/handguns/ ... 421-1.html
(Note the caption under the second picture.)

[Seabear]

This why I tll my students that having a CHL is a Social Resposibility, and the first responsibility we have as CHL's is to carry safely .

That being said, I had a gun shop in the mid 80's , and was sued once because an ATF agent dropped a derringer I had sold and it fired. Long story short, he claimed they did not know how to unload it ??????, and they did not have the hammer block safety on. He slid it off a pencil and missed the intended bag. He was showing it to a local LEO fingerprint guru. It shot the LEO in the groin. They sued me, the wholesaler and the manufacturer. It took about 3 years for me to get out of that one. Not sur how it ended up. Rest assured, someone will get sued on this one too.

[Warhammer]

[rm9792]

Another case to be made for carrying a proper weapon in a proper holster. Pocket carry is for TV.

Do they make a derringer holster? If I carry one it is in my front pocket, no holster and quite safe. Hard to draw quick though. If i amusing a holster then may as well carry a small 9mm or .380. Derringer is a last resort, ultra concealed item to me.

[BTin]

Just out of curiousity, what could they charge this guy with?

I have read of many derringers firing when dropped. Probably because of the firing pin - no safety thing mentioned earlier. I guess if you carry one, you need to be darn sure to not drop it! That sure does sound negligent to me. I would be surprised if he doesn't get charged with something.

[jamisjockey]

Gas anyone yet determined if the place was properly signed or not?

My guess was that the manager was talking about the TABC sign when he mentioned that no guns were allowed...

Fox News brought that up this morning, and pointed out that there was no no-gun signage out front. No mention of TABC signs.

[Keith B]

I personally am not a big fan of derringers as I don't think many folks properly use the safeties on them. Additionally, many have an open trigger, so if fully cocked, all one has to do is drop it and if it hits right (or maybe that should be wrong), then you have an ND.