Concealed carry in a school parking lot

[C-dub]

I guess I'm having a rough night.

We live only a few blocks from my daughter's school and sometimes we walk home. I will walk to the school and when she comes out we'll just walk home. I do not enter any of the buildings. Am I still okay to carry under these circumstances? It really wouldn't be any different than cutting through the school parking lot walking form one place to another. I think this is okay, but like I said, I guess I'm having a rough night, so I thought I'd ask.

[chabouk]

One further technical quibble:

IF you have a resident CHL from the state you live in, you are exempt from the GFSZA...

Actually, the exception in the GFSZA says possession of a firearm is not illegal:

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located ...

Thus it appears you do not need to be a resident of the state, but rather you must have a license issued by the same state (or political subdivision thereof) that the school is in. If you have Utah license, and you are in a school zone in Utah, it appears being a Texas resident would not matter.

Speaking of "I Do Not Want To Be A Test Case", should I find myself in that position, I'd argue like crazy that having any license recognized by that state constitutes being licensed by that state: you have a license that the state honors and permits you to carry legally.

[RPB]

Just some additional notes, in case others read this later ... On another forum, while discussing church versus school parking lots ....
And, I'll not re-copy/re-post what I said above on Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:06 pm other than

Page 71 of the publication LS-16, printed August 2008, by the DPS says "A License holder is not proibited from having a handgun in his or her vehicle in a school parking lot"

Motorist Protection Act ... pretty clear language you wouldn't want it "in plain view"
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/ ... 01815F.pdf

Q: What does "concealed" mean?
I agree with the statement, obvious to those of us who know the definition, "CONCEALED MEANS CONCEALED!"

But, for further clarification, to anyone ELSE reading this and asking later
1) According to the actual legal definition:
Texas Government Code - Section 411.171. Definitions
(3) "Concealed Handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

Note "openly discernible " "ordinary observation of a reasonable person" rather than "someone who knows you are a CHL and looking for a bump in your shirt"

2) According to the Texas Department of Public Safety, “‘Concealed’ means that the weapon cannot be visible, and that its presence cannot be discernible through ordinary observation. It is a criminal offense for a license holder to carry a handgun in plain view, or to intentionally fail to conceal the weapon.”

Here's a handy paragraph I keep as my guideline, but it isn't "Legal Advice":
A concealed handgun license holder who displays his or her handgun or otherwise intentionally reveals (or, "Exhibits?" or "unintentionally/accidently fails to conceal?" ... I don't know, I'm no Lawyer)
that he or she is carrying a concealed handgun is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor (TX PC § 46.035[a]).
If the weapon is displayed in a manner intended to cause alarm, the license holder is also guilty of a Class B misdemeanor (TX PC §42.01[a][8]),
unless the incident takes place on school property, in which case the license holder is guilty of a third degree felony (TX EDC §37.125[a]),
which could be enhanced to a second degree felony, PENAL CODE § 46.11.


Penal Code 46.03 refers to Penal Code § 46.035 (f)(3) for a definition BUT
PENAL CODE § 46.11(1) "Institution of higher education" and "premises"
have the meanings assigned by Section 481.134, Health and Safety
Code.

Texas Health & Safety Code - Section 481.134. Drug-Free Zones
§ 481.134. DRUG-FREE ZONES.
(a) In this section:
(4) "Premises" means real property and all buildings
and appurtenances pertaining to the real property.
(b) This section does not apply to an offense under Section
46.03(a)(1) of the Texas Penal Code.
(but that doesn't exclude Education code offenses)

My niece, in band, puts on a lot of shows in the school parking lot, that's a school activity, so I researched it a while back.

Now I don't know offhand the difference in "Exhibit" and "Failure to Conceal" and "display" but, since even I don't know, I'd hate for an ignorant teacher to call the ignorant school district police and me get arrested by the Ignorant School Police and face an Ignorant anti-gun jury with kids at that school, trying to prove a difference regarding Mens Rea/Intent (to "exhibit" or "Display" or "intentionally fail to conceal" or "intentionally display") and why 2 definitions of premesis are used and not to use the health and safety code definition to convict for an offense, but only to enhance a conviction which shouldn't occur if they used the Penal Code definition, and then selling my house to pay for an appeal, all because it was a windy day and my shirt blew up, and there's no way a jury, whose kids go to that school, and were in the parking lot that day which had the signs "Gun Free, Drug Free, Tobacco Free Zone" posted, would understand all that legal stuff, they are still mad about the "no cell phone in school zone" signs.... Even if I was exempt and could carry concealed under my shirt etc, A police officer seeing someone carrying in the zone has a prima facie case and probable cause for arrest. He may approach and challenge you. The risk and weight of the penalty exceeds what I'm willing to spend to attempt to challenge/defend it.

At other places, like church, I'll carry, we aren't posting 30.06 signs at my church, if someone I don't know notices a bump in my shirt and mentions it, while I turn my holster side away from them, I guess I could say, oh excuse me, I better go to the bathroom and adjust my insulin pump. Or: "Oops, I'm glad my Colostomy Bag/urine bag didn't break, I better go to the bathroom and empty it or adjust it, want to join me in the bathroom?, It may smell bad, and might be embarassing for me, so we can talk later, OK?"

A bump in a shirt is a bump in a shirt.
Like you said, Concealed is concealed.
"Concealed Handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person
Only if the bump in the shirt is obviously a handgun, "openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person" there's a failure to conceal. But not because another CHL holder/person who knows you and knows you are a CHL holder is looking for, or notices, a bump in a shirt and knows why it is there, at church or elsewhere.



Yesterday ... One news station says was a kid OFF CAMPUS (another news station says "on school property") at Austin High School, fired 9 shots into a car IN the School Parking lot. I think 4 bullets missed and went elsewhere .... All the facts aren't out yet, He's being charged as an adult, $500,000.00 bond
Shooting outside Austin High School | KXAN.com
Arrest made in shooting incident near Austin high school | kvue.com | News
statesman.com

Do I carry concealed while at church, yes all of our deacons and pastor are carrying, and we won't put up a 30.06 sign... while taking the kids to or picking them up at school, yes, and I stay in the car. If I MUST exit my car, the gun stays in the car, concealed, not exhibited, just be careful it isn't seen while moving it off your person if you must do that.... or I remove it from my IWB holster and conceal it within my vehicle before entering school property if there's any chance I may need to get out of my car.














I'm not a lawyer, that's my Layman's opinion, not legal advice.

[Keith B]

One further technical quibble:

IF you have a resident CHL from the state you live in, you are exempt from the GFSZA...

Actually, the exception in the GFSZA says possession of a firearm is not illegal:

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located ...

Thus it appears you do not need to be a resident of the state, but rather you must have a license issued by the same state (or political subdivision thereof) that the school is in. If you have Utah license, and you are in a school zone in Utah, it appears being a Texas resident would not matter.

Actually, that is correct. You must be licensed by the state in which you are carrying, not necessarily a resident. Thanks for the clarification as I stated it incorrectly.