Carrying in a public daycare?

[philbo]

Jim, you make a valid point. But, the lack of a definition within the code doesn't mean that a court/prosecutor won't reach to those areas where those terms have been previously defined and used extensively. Because the term school is not defined as it should be, I attempted to illustrate that when the legislature has attempted to define a school within the terms of the Penal Code, it has included a day care as defined above. With all due respect, while your argument sets up a decent meritorious defense if the situation ever came before a tribunal, who would want to be the trial case that determines whether a day care is included or not? Since there exists precedent for treating a day care as school, a prudent person would be wise to proceed carefully and either ascertain how the facility feels about CCW on their property and get permission, or make very certain it never becomes an issue. I'm not giving out legal advice, just food for thought.

[seamusTX]

Here are three ideas to think about:

1. Has anyone ever heard of a CHL holder being prosecuted for being in a privately owned day care center?

2. How could it become known that someone was carrying at the typical level of involvement (dropping off or picking up kids)?

3. So many arguments have been made about various places and circumstances being off-limits (roving school groups, street fairs where alcoholic beverages are sold, etc.) that we may as well not risk going off our own property. (This last is IMHO.)

One thing is for sure: If you ask, they will say No; and then you will have been given oral notice.

Jim

[quoheleth]

2. How could it become known that someone was carrying at the typical level of involvement (dropping off or picking up kids)?

If you're around a group of kids for any length of time, you know how easy it could be.

I drop my son off each morning and pick him up almost every afternoon. I also volunteer at the daycare by doing chapel for the kids. So, the kids not only know me as a pastor but as a dad (and a really cool one, at that ). When they see me, it's not uncommon for me to get "mobbed" by a half-dozen 3-5 year olds, all wanting to get my attention and tell me about their day, what their mommy bought them, or what they had for breakfast/lunch/snack. Frequently, they seek to get attention in groups, and by grabbing pants, jacket, or shirt and tugging. Worse, the kid you don't see who gives your leg a bear-hug, slapping the family jewels in the process!!! It is impossible to defend yourself in that situation! Sometimes I can intercept their hands, but frequently, the one you don't see is the one that gets you. There's a couple of pickpockets-in-training in that class, I think! Even if it's not done on purpose (and I don't think it is), all it takes is a hug that you weren't ready for, a shirt that's loose, or a really sharp eye seeing the clip on an IWB holster and it can become a tense situation.

Yeah...it can be argued kids should keep their hands to themselves. Lawbreakers shouldn't be on the streets. Both happen.

The reality is that a loud-mouthed kid and a liberal, anti-2A daycare worker can make your life miserable.

I think I might talk with the owner/manager and see if I might obtain written permission. The worst that could happen is a) I'm told no; b) it gets put in the handbook (thus alerting other CCW holders of the danger); or c) a 30-06 sign.

Thanks to Philbo for posting Texas code.

Q

[seamusTX]

I doubt that more than 2% of the population would recognize a holster belt clip as such.

There are deeper concealment methods. They have been discussed on this forum.

- Jim

[LarryH]

I doubt that more than 2% of the population would recognize a holster belt clip as such.

I'm sure you're correct, but I believe your average rugrat will notice there's something there (it's right at eye level, after all) and probably reach out and touch it.

[seamusTX]

There are several styles of inside-waistband belt holster that have no visible clip even with a tucked-in shirt. Here's one.

As I said, there are other ways to conceal such as shoulder holsters and shirts with built-in holster pockets.

If a kid becomes curious, it is what they call a "teachable moment," namely, to say, "We don't talk about what is under our clothes except to our parents or a doctor or nurse."

That said, if you think you should not carry some place for whatever reason, don't.

- Jim

[texasag93]

What if there is a private Kindergardern there?

As for little ones hitting you in the sensative areas when running up to you, WELCOME TO FATHERHOOD.....

My son does it every time I pick him up at his pre-k.

[A-R]

What if there is a private Kindergardern there?

Good questions. Just finished reading the whole thread and am wondering same thing. I'm thinking I need to stop carrying into my children's daycare/pre-school.

[SlowDave]

I dunno. I would hate to be the test case, but I can't imagine a DA prosecuting on this. It's shaky ground for them as well. I think the likely worst-case scenario if you get "outted" by one of the kids or otherwise discovered, that they would tell you that is not allowed and not to carry there anymore. Hard to believe a kids gonna pull your shirt up, someone find that you're carrying, call the police, cart you away to jail, and charge you. I guess it could happen, but seems very unlikely. IMHO, YMMV, IANAL, etc.

[ls6tt]

didnt read everything, but my sons daycare is an accredited school, therefor a no go

[quoheleth]

I'm sure you're correct, but I believe your average rugrat will notice there's something there (it's right at eye level, after all) and probably reach out and touch it.

It's been my experience that the average kid (under 10) is probably more observant than the average adult. Adults are too consumed with "big picture" stuff, they miss the details. Kids don't have the big worries of adults, and notice the little oddities more. And, because they haven't been quite "trained" in manners and/or political correctness to not point and say "Hey, what's that???", you get some interesting questions.

Q

[seamusTX]

You are correct that small children are more likely to see what is really there than adults, and have less social inhibition.

However, adults have greater perceived authority in the minds of both children and other adults.

Therefore, it a kid asks nosy questions, you can answer with some form of "none of your business," and likely that will be the end of it.

If item in question were a medical appliance like an insulin pump or a prosthetic leg, you would be just as entitled to maintain your privacy, and other adults would be just as inclined to smooth over the situation.

- Jim