Article: Man Charged - Gun Fired after concert

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frankie_the_yankee
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#16

Post by frankie_the_yankee »

ejector wrote: So what is the definition of intoxication? I believe it's any introduction of alcohol.
Not true.
ejector wrote: My point is even if he had one light beer, you commit an offense you betcha "intoxication" will highlight your case. Hence my statement is it worth the one beer and carrying.
Also not true. In addition, I'd rather be alive to sort it all out than flat on the ground outlined by white chalk as my reward for 'not taking that chance'.
ejector wrote: Hopefully someone smarter than me can help with respect to LEO making the call ---> in Texas doesn't the LEO onsite have the power to make the intoxication call?
Both Stephan and TXI have posted accurate and knowledgeable info on this subject in the past. Maybe one or both could jump in here and illuminate things.

But even though IANAL I can tell you that any "call" made by an LEO or anyone else is merely an allegation until and unless it is established as a fact in a court of law.
Ahm jus' a Southern boy trapped in a Yankee's body

KBCraig
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#17

Post by KBCraig »

ejector wrote:So what is the definition of intoxication? I believe it's any introduction of alcohol.
When you use mouthwash in the morning, some of the alcohol is absorbed into your system. Are you intoxicated? Of course not.

If that seems like a ridiculous example, it's no more ridiculous than your statement.

lrb111
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#18

Post by lrb111 »

ejector wrote:
frankie_the_yankee wrote:Where does it say the guy only had one drink? Maybe he had a number of drinks. Maybe he was intoxicated.

And nobody ever said it is "solely up to the LEO" to determine if someone is intoxicated. There are certain criteria that must be met in order to establish that under the law. Stephan Rothstein articulated some of these criteria in one of his posts on the subject.

It's not like you're automatically intoxicated just because the LEO says you are.

One drink does not make a person with normal response to alcohol intoxicated.
So what is the definition of intoxication? I believe it's any introduction of alcohol. My point is even if he had one light beer, you commit an offense you betcha "intoxication" will highlight your case. Hence my statement is it worth the one beer and carrying.

Hopefully someone smarter than me can help with respect to LEO making the call ---> in Texas doesn't the LEO onsite have the power to make the intoxication call?
From the Penal Code at http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/pe.toc.htm
§ 49.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) "Alcohol concentration" means the number of grams
of alcohol per:
(A) 210 liters of breath;
(B) 100 milliliters of blood; or
(C) 67 milliliters of urine.
(2) "Intoxicated" means:
(A) not having the normal use of mental or
physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a
controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of
two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the
body;
or
(B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or
more.


I feel sorry for this fellowm He may not have been anywhere near intoxicated. However, he smelled of alcohol, and the police can say he obviously did not have enough control of his faculties to be operating a handgun. Near certainly will be a suspension, pending court. Then a revocation.
Ø resist

Take away the second first, and the first is gone in a second.

NRA Life Member, TSRA, chl instructor

NinteenEleven
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#19

Post by NinteenEleven »

Right2Carry wrote:I have always believed that you could invoke the 5th when asked to perform any field sobriety test, breathilizer, or blood test. I may be wrong on this but I would never take one of those tests and would invoke my 5th amendment rights under the constitution. Sure I might have my license suspended for 6 months to a year for failing to do so, but hey that is better than a DUI conviction.
Refusing a field sobriety test WILL result in suspension of your license. You will be taken to jail on suspicion of DUI/public intoxication, and a judge will be awakened to issue an order to take your blood. Then you're held down, and the blood taken from you. Afterwards, you'll likely face that same cranky, tired judge the next morning when you're arraigned. Not a fun way to go.

Here's something that's better than a DUI conviction: Not driving after having drank alcohol. From the sounds of your argument, this is something you've given plenty of thought to. I humbly ask that you consider the possible consequences to other people, i.e., injury or death, the next time you consider driving after drinking.

Right2Carry
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#20

Post by Right2Carry »

NinteenEleven wrote:
Right2Carry wrote:I have always believed that you could invoke the 5th when asked to perform any field sobriety test, breathilizer, or blood test. I may be wrong on this but I would never take one of those tests and would invoke my 5th amendment rights under the constitution. Sure I might have my license suspended for 6 months to a year for failing to do so, but hey that is better than a DUI conviction.
Refusing a field sobriety test WILL result in suspension of your license. You will be taken to jail on suspicion of DUI/public intoxication, and a judge will be awakened to issue an order to take your blood. Then you're held down, and the blood taken from you. Afterwards, you'll likely face that same cranky, tired judge the next morning when you're arraigned. Not a fun way to go.

Here's something that's better than a DUI conviction: Not driving after having drank alcohol. From the sounds of your argument, this is something you've given plenty of thought to. I humbly ask that you consider the possible consequences to other people, i.e., injury or death, the next time you consider driving after drinking.
You know what happens when one ASSUMES something don't you? Well I guess your assumption that I drink and drive fits you like a glove. It is not against the law to have a drink or two and drive, it is against the law to be drunk while driving. I made an argument out of something that was presented in this post. And I stated that IF I ever found myself in that situation I would try to invoke my 5th amendment rights.

Just like people on here have said there is no way they would consent to searches of their vehicle, does that mean they are guilty in your mind of doing something criminal?
“Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, an American Soldier doesn't have that problem". — President Ronald Reagan, 1985

srothstein
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#21

Post by srothstein »

First, and most important, is to remind everyone that the incident under discussion happened in OHIO, not Texas. They obviously have different laws there as Texas has no such charge as improperly handling a firearm in a vehicle or using a firearm while intoxicated (if you are intoxicated in Texas and have a CHL and a weapon, the correct charge would be Unlawfully carrying of handgun by license holder).

I do not know what Ohio's intoxication laws are, but Texas has specific definition's of intoxication. These were posted already in this thread, so I won't go over them again. I will point out that this specific case might be a sample intoxication case under Texas laws, if the person had alcohol (or any other intoxicant) in his system. In a case like this, if the person had been drinking (and I wanted to arrest him), I could argue that his lack of fine motor skills was caused by the intoxication. This would meet the first part of the definition of intoxication of not being in possession of his normal faculties. I would argue that he normally knows how to load his firearm in a safe manner by virtue of his having passed the CHL test. I would then argue that the fact that he was still trying to manipulate his firearm, with the resulting hole in his foot, shows that he was a danger to himself and others, thus meeting the second half of the public intoxication test. Then I would charge him with the PI and Unlawfully Carrying charges both at once.

Of course, I would probably not charge him in this case since I always figured that the purpose of the arrest was to get people to learn to behave better, and if a hole in his foot doesn't teach him to not drink and use firearms, nothing will.
Right2Carry wrote:I have always believed that you could invoke the 5th when asked to perform any field sobriety test, breathilizer, or blood test. I may be wrong on this but I would never take one of those tests and would invoke my 5th amendment rights under the constitution. Sure I might have my license suspended for 6 months to a year for failing to do so, but hey that is better than a DUI conviction.
One of the interesting things about the law is that you do have the right to refuse to take any type of field sobriety tests. If you do this, the officer will have to form his own judgment on your intoxication. He will probably arrest you anyway since he thinks you are intoxicated or he would not have asked about the tests. Most of our cars have video now, so it does not hurt the case nearly as much as it used to. In the old days, you could really convince a jury that the officer had no probable cause to arrest you if you refused the field tests. It made the DWI conviction a much harder case to win.

Now, I would start the camera rolling before I hit the red lights, so I can show the jury how you were driving that made me want to stop you. Then, your speech and walking abilities are still on video when you refuse, and it will get shown in court. The odds are better now on the conviction if the officer knows how to write a report (which still gives you even odds with a good attorney - cops are generally bad report writers).

NinteenEleven wrote:Refusing a field sobriety test WILL result in suspension of your license. You will be taken to jail on suspicion of DUI/public intoxication, and a judge will be awakened to issue an order to take your blood. Then you're held down, and the blood taken from you. Afterwards, you'll likely face that same cranky, tired judge the next morning when you're arraigned.
Well, refusing the field sobriety test will not result in any suspension of your license. That occurs only when you refuse the blood or breath test at the station. But, as I said, it is a pretty good probability that you will be arrested. You would then get offered the breath test that would get the license suspension when you refuse. We would not wake up a judge, or do anything else of that nature. The law already provides for a forced blood draw if there is a fatality or very serious injury accident. And if there is not a serious injury, it is not allowed in most cases and not worth the trouble to get a search warrant for a simple DWI.

As for the cranky judge, at least it is just the arraignment where he sets bail. It is highly unlikely that it would be the county or district court judge who will actually hear the case. Of course, they are supposed to be above holding a grudge against someone because they are judges, and we all know how true that is, right?

I think the bigger problem when you refuse the field sobriety test is that you irritate the officer (in most cases). He will remember the case better in court and will do his best to get as many extra charges as he can get the D.A. to accept.
Steve Rothstein
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