Spoiling for a fight? You'll probably find one!

[The Wall]

Yeah, I like to surf.

[locke_n_load]

So, is there a hard requirement to hand over CHL if the only thing you are doing is OCing and minding your own business? I will give up the license for the first half year or so, but after that, I might ask the officer what cause they had to stop me from my business around town.

This is what we do not need. As already been stated I am sure there will be some LEO's that take it a step further than necessary, but how about the old proverb, "A soft answer turneth away wrath." You have not broken a law and neither does it break a law to stop a few minutes, ID yourself, and have a good talk with the LEO. I promise that will lead the LEO's that have a tendency to lean hard on others to eventually realize we are not the threat.

It also help educate them. There is no way that everyone (LEO's included) can know all of the laws.

So, is there a hard requirement to hand over CHL if the only thing you are doing is OCing and minding your own business? I will give up the license for the first half year or so, but after that, I might ask the officer what cause they had to stop me from my business around town.

What changes after six months?

I will still hand over the license, but I will question what they are stopping me for, and ask if they pull people over to check for a DL. I will not be confrontational, just wanting to help the officer think for a minute. I do not plan on wearing a body camera or any of that.

I get tired of harassment after about that long.

[TexasCajun]

There will be a learning curve for everyone involved. And things will eventually iron themselves out as everyone becomes accustomed to the new normal. The only real question is how long will the learning curve last? I think that will depend on how many unlicensed open carriers initially get nabbed. At first, LEOs will likely license-check most open carriers that they come across. If they catch a measurable percentage of people carrying without a license, then the practice will continue. License-checks will slow down or stop when they result in few to no arrests. The main thing for lawful carriers to remember is to remain compliant and respectful until the new wears off.

[tomtexan]

It sounds like the first day of open carry will have the greatest potential for problems. Some are planning on throwing parties and getting groups of people to walk through shopping Malls flaunting their sidearms. Remember Malls can post 30.06 and .07 signs. If they don't now they probably will after getting mobbed by a bunch of open carriers. Only time will tell. If the Democrats ever get the majority in the state legislature it will all go away. So I guess we should enjoy it while we can.

Always with the negative waves, Moriarty. The negative waves!

[youtube][/youtube]

I was thinking the same thing. Always pessimistic.

At least now I know it's not just me.

[chasfm11]

I'm trying to get a group together and see if we can schedule a meeting with our local PD before January. I'm much rather have them explain what protocols they plan to use, especially on MWAG calls. Our daughter was a 911 dispatcher for 7 years so I have a pretty good idea what happens when those calls are placed. I particularly want to talk about the swatting possibilities. Our social media shows a small number local residents who appear ready to "embellish" the situation in order to draw the maximum police response. I think if we can have an open and honest discussion with our local guys, we might all benefit.

That said, I spoke personally to our chief about his lack of support for armed teachers. The reasons that he provided lead me to believe that he believes that only LEOs should have guns. I've spoken to many of his officers and know that they don't share his approach but they will be driven by his direction. I can only hope that reason prevails.

I'm not anxious to OC individually. I will not be as careful arming and disarming (my schedule takes me to prohibited places) as I have been in the past when I needed to make sure that I stayed concealed. And last thing that I want is to be responsible personally for having a local merchant put up a 30.07 sign. I know that those signs are going to happen, I just don't want to be the one to cause of them.

[carlson1]

And last thing that I want is to be responsible personally for having a local merchant put up a 30.07 sign. I know that those signs are going to happen, I just don't want to be the one to cause of them.

I am afraid as they research for 30.07 we will see business going ahead and posting the second ugly 30.06 sign too.

[jmra]

I'm trying to get a group together and see if we can schedule a meeting with our local PD before January. I'm much rather have them explain what protocols they plan to use, especially on MWAG calls. Our daughter was a 911 dispatcher for 7 years so I have a pretty good idea what happens when those calls are placed. I particularly want to talk about the swatting possibilities. Our social media shows a small number local residents who appear ready to "embellish" the situation in order to draw the maximum police response. I think if we can have an open and honest discussion with our local guys, we might all benefit.

That said, I spoke personally to our chief about his lack of support for armed teachers. The reasons that he provided lead me to believe that he believes that only LEOs should have guns. I've spoken to many of his officers and know that they don't share his approach but they will be driven by his direction. I can only hope that reason prevails.

I'm not anxious to OC individually. I will not be as careful arming and disarming (my schedule takes me to prohibited places) as I have been in the past when I needed to make sure that I stayed concealed. And last thing that I want is to be responsible personally for having a local merchant put up a 30.07 sign. I know that those signs are going to happen, I just don't want to be the one to cause of them.

Legal OC or not, the last thing I want is someone seeing me disarm and leaving my weapon in the car. I will continue to be very covert in such activities.

[chasfm11]

I'm trying to get a group together and see if we can schedule a meeting with our local PD before January. I'm much rather have them explain what protocols they plan to use, especially on MWAG calls. Our daughter was a 911 dispatcher for 7 years so I have a pretty good idea what happens when those calls are placed. I particularly want to talk about the swatting possibilities. Our social media shows a small number local residents who appear ready to "embellish" the situation in order to draw the maximum police response. I think if we can have an open and honest discussion with our local guys, we might all benefit.

That said, I spoke personally to our chief about his lack of support for armed teachers. The reasons that he provided lead me to believe that he believes that only LEOs should have guns. I've spoken to many of his officers and know that they don't share his approach but they will be driven by his direction. I can only hope that reason prevails.

I'm not anxious to OC individually. I will not be as careful arming and disarming (my schedule takes me to prohibited places) as I have been in the past when I needed to make sure that I stayed concealed. And last thing that I want is to be responsible personally for having a local merchant put up a 30.07 sign. I know that those signs are going to happen, I just don't want to be the one to cause of them.

Legal OC or not, the last thing I want is someone seeing me disarm and leaving my weapon in the car. I will continue to be very covert in such activities.

Disarming, at least for me, has never been the difficult part. I can covertly remove the gun and place it in its storage location. The problem was always re holstering out of sight. Being able to do that in a standing position, without trying to cover myself with a towel will be much easier.

[chasfm11]

And last thing that I want is to be responsible personally for having a local merchant put up a 30.07 sign. I know that those signs are going to happen, I just don't want to be the one to cause of them.

I am afraid as they research for 30.07 we will see business going ahead and posting the second ugly 30.06 sign too.

I agree that businesses like Sprouts or Whole Foods that have already systematically put up 30.06 signs will have 30.07 signs in place by January 1st. There may be others who were on the fence who will now do both, too. Those are the hazards associated with OC. I see causing an incident at some store where they were more gun friendly which resulted in a 30.07 as something I want to try to avoid.

I think a lot of it may hinge on how OC is done. Strapping on a Python in an OWB is more likely to be noticed that say simply not trying to tuck a dress shirt around an IWB. And the closer the rig looks to something that the public believes that an LEO might wear, the less likely it may be to cause concern. I do admit that there was at least one high visibility incident in my area where an LEO in a more civilian style uniform was asked to leave a restaurant because of his OC. Again, I'm going to CC almost exclusively.

[b322da]

Speaking of spoiling for a fight:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.2244745" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jim

[harrycallahan]

So, is there a hard requirement to hand over CHL if the only thing you are doing is OCing and minding your own business? I will give up the license for the first half year or so, but after that, I might ask the officer what cause they had to stop me from my business around town.

This is what we do not need. As already been stated I am sure there will be some LEO's that take it a step further than necessary, but how about the old proverb, "A soft answer turneth away wrath." You have not broken a law and neither does it break a law to stop a few minutes, ID yourself, and have a good talk with the LEO. I promise that will lead the LEO's that have a tendency to lean hard on others to eventually realize we are not the threat.

It also help educate them. There is no way that everyone (LEO's included) can know all of the laws.

Thank you Carlson1. I just don't understand this whole debate over something that has yet to happen and even if it does, is five minutes of your life really all that important. They're as nervous about approaching us as we are being approached. Maybe if we spend some time talking with the men and women that serve and protect our communities some of this paranoia will abate. After all they're people just like us.

[EEllis]

I think it's also important to realize that you can't know why you are being approached and every factor that might be involved. Basically some here are assuming that they will be stopped in what they believe is an illegal or unconstitutional manner and are primed to react to any approach based on that belief. When a cop does stop someone they don't have to explain everything that went into that decision to stop you. They may have RS that they haven't revealed and only have to explain that to the courts, if it gets that far, not you on the street. Sure most cops will tell you why you are being stopped but that's more of a tactic to gain cooperation that a legal requirement. Heck the cop might even lie, and with good reason, like if he is trying to shield a reporting party.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Speaking of spoiling for a fight:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.2244745" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jim

I wonder where he came up with this idea?

Chas.

[canvasbck]

And last thing that I want is to be responsible personally for having a local merchant put up a 30.07 sign. I know that those signs are going to happen, I just don't want to be the one to cause of them.

I am afraid as they research for 30.07 we will see business going ahead and posting the second ugly 30.06 sign too.

I agree that businesses like Sprouts or Whole Foods that have already systematically put up 30.06 signs will have 30.07 signs in place by January 1st. There may be others who were on the fence who will now do both, too. Those are the hazards associated with OC. I see causing an incident at some store where they were more gun friendly which resulted in a 30.07 as something I want to try to avoid.

I think a lot of it may hinge on how OC is done. Strapping on a Python in an OWB is more likely to be noticed that say simply not trying to tuck a dress shirt around an IWB. And the closer the rig looks to something that the public believes that an LEO might wear, the less likely it may be to cause concern. I do admit that there was at least one high visibility incident in my area where an LEO in a more civilian style uniform was asked to leave a restaurant because of his OC. Again, I'm going to CC almost exclusively.

I don't think you will see as many 30.07 signs as you think you will. I'm responsible for writing and enforcing the firearms policies at our facility (at the direction of managers). When HB910 passed, I recommended that we update our 30.06 signs prior to Jan 1 to maintain compliance, but recommended to NOT post 30.07 signs since OC was readily apparent and providing verbal notification carried the same weight of law as a sign would. Management and legal councel agreed with that assessment. We will NOT be posting 30.07, but will be updating our 30.06 signs to maintain compliance.

[clarionite]

I don't think you will see as many 30.07 signs as you think you will. I'm responsible for writing and enforcing the firearms policies at our facility (at the direction of managers). When HB910 passed, I recommended that we update our 30.06 signs prior to Jan 1 to maintain compliance, but recommended to NOT post 30.07 signs since OC was readily apparent and providing verbal notification carried the same weight of law as a sign would. Management and legal councel agreed with that assessment. We will NOT be posting 30.07, but will be updating our 30.06 signs to maintain compliance.

If I were a business owner that wanted to restrict Open Carry in my facility, I don't think I'd want to leave the confrontation up to my employees. I'd rather post the sign, and if there was someone who carried past the sign have the employee call the police to deal with it. I can't imagine asking employees to be the ones to confront armed customers.