New Pocket Gun KelTec P9

[Ed4032]

Remington R51 are coming back out. You know just sayin.

[silverbear]

J frame

[jmra]

Any opinions on Taurus TCP?

[video][/video]

[The Annoyed Man]

My own dislike for the brand isn't because I'm a brand snob. It is because I'm looking at it like a businessman. I see a gun company that in practical terms could have made better guns, but it doesn't. And it doesn't because it's business model has trapped it into not being able to. Innovation is a good thing, but even gun designers like JMB and Stoner found employment with companies that could afford to produce their superior designs. For my money, the smartest thing that Kel-Tec could do at this point would be for them to license their RFB and RD8 designs to another company that can afford to produce them in quantities with prices set to economies of scale under a more "reputable" brand-name, collect all those royalties and plow them back into significantly upgrading their pistol line to appeal to a market that is willing to pay more for a better pistol. But that's just me.

I get your point, but I just don't see self defense as a business proposition. If that were the case, I'd have a whole world of problems with Smith & Wesson and a lot of others. As I stated, to me EDC is only about one thing. How much better would a more expensive product save my life?

That's important for me too, but I was just trying to describe why I'm not a fan of that company. And sure, S&W had teething problems with the Shield, as did Springfield with the XDS, but both companies were well enough funded to address the issues they had. I don't think Kel-Tec is well enough funded to do that....and so in a sense, self defense is bit of a business proposition. It is easier for Kel-Tec to continue to produce guns that crack their slides and just replace the slide when customers complain than it is for them to fix the problem at the source and either change the design or the metallurgy to stop cracks from happening in the first place. That is what makes a business proposition into a self-defense issue. The former solution costs less than the best solution. If KT were able to get that kind of funding, they would be able to address the issues and produce a pistol that competes with the next tier of manufacturers up the food chain. Will the one time I need to rely on the PF9 be the time the slide flies apart? I don't have to worry about that with other pocket 9s that have had their teething problems addressed.

BUT..... All of that said, if I had to choose between leaving the house unarmed, or leaving with a PF9, I'd take the PF9 for sure. On the other hand, silverbear has an excellent suggestion that nobody has mentioned yet (me included), and that is a J-frame or similar sized revolver. And you can get those in 9mm too. I pocket carried my M&P340 to dinner tonight. Mine is a .357, but Ruger makes a 9mm snubbie for $619. Charter Arms makes the $496 Pitbull in 9mm. S&W used to make a 9mm Centennial, which is a fine pistol, and you can probably still find used ones around.

[ShootDontTalk]

TAM...not to make a circular argument here, but the issue you raise is exactly the reason I shoot carry guns "lots." In my mind though I always rely on my personal experience with a gun. I have spent too many years, as I'm sure you have, watching absolute bozos at the range blow stuff up with all kinds of stupidity. Today most of those idiots have some kind of camera on hand and suddenly you have a "this gun goes kaboom" story. Never mind that they shot a round that developed 58,000 psi - "this gun went kaboom on me."

There are loads from smaller manufacturers that no one has any idea how much pressure they develop. I would be willing to bet the farm that a lot of what we see labeled "failures of the gun" are actually "failures of the owner." If you are going to shoot 9mm +P+ out of any of these small, pocketable guns (or revolvers) IMHO you would do well to only shoot a very, very few. Otherwise they might disassemble themselves.

BTW...S&W has had more than just problems with some Shields. I am still waiting for them to replace a Bodyguard 380 that was sent in for warranty and deemed non-repairable. They destroyed it. Now I have to wait who knows how many months for a replacement gun to be manufactured. I keep getting told "four more weeks." So is Kel-Tec really so bad? Not in my book.

Sorry I have no current experience with some asked about here, so I won't comment.

[Javier730]

Any opinions on Taurus TCP?

I learned to stay away from Taurus semi automatics. I have had too many bad experiences with them. I had the PT111, PT940 and a PT92. The PT940 was picky with 90% of ammo brands I put through it. The PT111 not so much but still over 50% failure. The PT92 was okay but still not something I would rely on. I noticed some new taurus' I've held rattle like maracas.

[cyphertext]

If inexpensive pocket carry is the objective, don't overlook the Sig P290RS... They had some issues when first released as the P290, but the RS models have addressed that. Available in 9mm and .380, and come with night sights. Only drawback that I see is that they are "heavier" than others, but I carry mine in my pocket and I don't have any issues with it. I think they are inexpensive because they just aren't as sexy as the other Sig pocket pistols... They are available for much less than MSRP. I think I might have paid more for my Kel-tec PF9



Caliber 9mm
Action Type DAO
Trigger Pull DAO 9.0 lb Average
Overall Length 5.5 in
Overall Height 3.9 in
Overall Width 0.9 (1.1 in with slide catch lever)
Barrel Length 2.9 in
Sight Radius 4.3 in
Weight w/Mag 20.5 oz
Mag Capacity 6 Rounds (9mm, .380ACP), 8 Rounds (9mm, .380ACP)
Sights SIGLITE® Night Sights
Grips Polymer (interchangable) Other materials coming soon.
Frame Finish Black polymer
Slide Finish Nitron® or natural stainless
Accessory Rail No
Options Customizable grip plates, mini laser
MSRP $513.00

[mojo84]

If I were to get the Ruger lc9, I would make sure it is the lc9s Pro. That's the striker fired model without a safety. I hated the long mushy trigger on the original lc9.

I would consider the lc9s Pro, shield, xds or g43.

[jason812]

Any opinions on Taurus TCP?

My wife's has been great. No malfunctions and she qualified with it. I researched the crap out of the pocket .380's and after much reading, felt confident about her depending on the little Taurus. Just make sure you get a newer one as some of the earlierr ones had some issues. I believe her's is a "c" revision. I've thought about getting me one as a BUG that's how much I like hers.

[stroo]

I have 2 Kel Tec P 11s and had another one. Two of them I have put thousands of rounds through while the one I carry has seen about 5-600.

The advantages of the P 11 and P 9s is that they are considerably lighter than the rest of the guns put up here by TAM and others (12 oz compared to 18-20+ oz.); they are less expensive than the other guns; and KT has a great warranty and customer service. Plus if you like to tinker with guns, go to the KTOG site to find everything you can do.

The disadvantages are a long, hard trigger pull although I understand it is better on the P9 than on the P 11 (some of the others listed above also have long hard trigger pulls BTW; some have pretty good triggers; they break down more often although I have never had a breakdown that would have kept me out of a fight and KT has great service; and they are not fun to shoot - a lot of kick because of 9mm with a lightweight gun.

I regularly pocket carry a KT P 11 with full confidence. You can easily pocket carry a P 9. Just get a pocket holster and make sure your pockets are big enough.

[stroo]

BTW KT P 9 and P 11 have been used in 2-3 gunfights that I know of with the good guy with a P 11 prevailing.

[flechero]

Although not a popular opinion here, the PF9 has its place. Among other options, I have 2 PF9's and both have been 100% since day one. both feed JHP's and FMJ 100% and both are as accurate as any 3" gun I've shot. I do pocket carry it often and many of the guns mentioned are either heavier or larger... both bad things in the pocket.

I've put a northwoods trigger on both and that makes them twice the gun they were.

There hasn't been a single gun mentioned that hasn't had it's own share of bad reports on the internet.

We have an LC9 as well and I like the PF9 better.

I do like the XDS a lot but like others, it's size, weight and cost don't compare closely to the PF9.

[VMI77]

I am pretty sure I didn't name any names. I spoke of people who have spent years owning and using something versus those who have seen someone have a problem during a range visit or watched a YouTube video or rented one for a day at a range. You are free to draw your own conclusions about that. I don't make value judgements based on superficial experience. YMMV

Interesting that a complaint is made about shooting a gun "lots" of times to verify functionality before trusting your life to it. Perhaps I missed something. "Lots", at least the last time I looked it up, doesn't have a specific number attached to it. Use whatever number you're comfortable with. I'm fine with that. It's your life.

I'm not trying to be disagreeable, argumentative, or ruffle any feathers. The ultimate purpose of an EDC is to save your life. As long as it will do that, I'm happy. There is no prize for saving your life with the most, or least, expensive gun. Just saving your life. End of story.

Anyone who buys a semi-auto handgun for self-defense and doesn't put at least 200 rounds through it with no malfunctions, and with the ammo they plan to carry, is foolish. I've had more expensive "good" brand name guns malfunction when the cheaper variant did not. I doubt I own many guns that plenty of people don't say are junk or worthless. This is not only true of guns btw, for just about everything I've ever purchased on Amazon there are commenters calling it useless junk.

I'm not a fan of any brand...I'm a fan of what I like and what works. I guess I just joined the "criminal" class with my purchase of a KSG. It's made by Keltec so it must be "junk." This gun, like many other products I've purchased that were labeled junk works just fine for me.

For an EDC I like what fits my hand, meets my concealment needs, shoots well, and doesn't normally malfunction. Having experience with a lot of the guns discussed here I find the relatively expensive Sig P938 is the one for me when it comes to small semi-autos --though I've got cheaper guns that will still do the job just fine. Still, it gave me pause when I removed a mag one day and a round fell out of the grip apparently having dislodged when the mag was released. I had to run several full mags worth of my carry ammo through the gun again to convince myself this wasn't going to be a problem.

[MechAg94]

From what I have heard, the owner of Kel-tec's business model is to not go into debt for any reason or something like that. New guns are put into production and the production profit is used to fund expansion of the production for that gun. This is 180 degree away from S&W and Springfield who set up a whole bunch of production and introduce a new firearm with hundreds of thousands of copies in distribution. There is risk to the second approach that maybe Keltec doesn't want to take on. I have to wonder who Keltec doesn't license some of their designs. Ruger has copied their pistols before anyway.

I have one PF9. It functions fine when it fires. Have some issues with the firing pin not hitting. Just started working on getting Keltec to fix that.

However, I have 2 or 3 other Keltec products that work fine. They have some unique guns that are fun to shoot.

[VMI77]

From what I have heard, the owner of Kel-tec's business model is to not go into debt for any reason or something like that. New guns are put into production and the production profit is used to fund expansion of the production for that gun. This is 180 degree away from S&W and Springfield who set up a whole bunch of production and introduce a new firearm with hundreds of thousands of copies in distribution. There is risk to the second approach that maybe Keltec doesn't want to take on. I have to wonder who Keltec doesn't license some of their designs. Ruger has copied their pistols before anyway.

I have one PF9. It functions fine when it fires. Have some issues with the firing pin not hitting. Just started working on getting Keltec to fix that.

However, I have 2 or 3 other Keltec products that work fine. They have some unique guns that are fun to shoot.

But hey, that debt model has worked great for Colt.