Discharged "under honorable conditions" = not "honorably"

[loren]

According to the American Legion (of which I used to be a member) and the U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs the term "honorably discharged" does include veterans "discharged, under honorable conditions". I have written replies from each of these organizations to that effect, one of which I have forwarded to the Manager, Licensing & Registration (Public Safety, Texas Department of - Private Security Board). The one from AL came too late.

I have also noted that the word "veteran" can be placed on a driver's license for one who is "honorably discharged" and here DPS shows the term to mean both honorable discharge and general discharge under honorable conditions. It makes no sense for the CHL licensing folks to interpret the term "honorable discharged" differently when not so directed by the law.

I have also copied my local Texas State Representative and the Texas State Senator who is chairperson of the state's veterans affairs committee on the letter above. I'll provide an update when my petition is final.

[Right2Carry]

According to the American Legion (of which I used to be a member) and the U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs the term "honorably discharged" does include veterans "discharged, under honorable conditions". I have written replies from each of these organizations to that effect, one of which I have forwarded to the Manager, Licensing & Registration (Public Safety, Texas Department of - Private Security Board). The one from AL came too late.

I have also noted that the word "veteran" can be placed on a driver's license for one who is "honorably discharged" and here DPS shows the term to mean both honorable discharge and general discharge under honorable conditions. It makes no sense for the CHL licensing folks to interpret the term "honorable discharged" differently when not so directed by the law.

I have also copied my local Texas State Representative and the Texas State Senator who is chairperson of the state's veterans affairs committee on the letter above. I'll provide an update when my petition is final.

You have been provided multiple sources and links which show that there is a difference between the two discharges and benefits associated with those discharges. Maybe you will win your fight but you need to understand that a discharge of General under honorable conditions does not give you the same benefits as one who receives an Honorable discharge. They are two separate types of discharges. It appears that you are willing to spend more in time and money than you will get from the discount.

[sugar land dave]

My father was career military and I grew up living life around those guys. I recently spent over a decade in subcontracted service to DOD command level officers. Based on decades in that culture and resulting personal knowledge, my firm belief is that there is a difference.

General discharges are given to service members whose performance is satisfactory but is marked by a considerable departure in duty performance and conduct expected of military members. Reasons for such a characterization of service vary, from medical discharges to misconduct, and are utilized by the unit commander as a means to correct unacceptable behavior prior to initiating discharge action (unless the reason is drug abuse, in which case discharge is mandatory). A commander must disclose the reasons for the discharge action in writing to the service member, and must explain reasons for recommending the service be characterized as General (Under Honorable Conditions). The service member is normally required to sign a statement acknowledging receipt and understanding of the notification of pending discharge memorandum. The person is also advised of the right to seek counsel and present supporting statements.

In addition, service members are required to sign documents acknowledging that "substantial prejudice in civilian life" may be encountered under a general discharge. A general discharge may preclude a veteran's participation in the GI Bill, service on veterans' commissions, and other programs for which an honorable discharge is required, but is eligible for VA disability and most other benefits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_discharge" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Right2Carry]

My father was career military and I grew up living life around those guys. I recently spent over a decade in subcontracted service to DOD command level officers. Based on decades in that culture and resulting personal knowledge, my firm belief is that there is a difference.

General discharges are given to service members whose performance is satisfactory but is marked by a considerable departure in duty performance and conduct expected of military members. Reasons for such a characterization of service vary, from medical discharges to misconduct, and are utilized by the unit commander as a means to correct unacceptable behavior prior to initiating discharge action (unless the reason is drug abuse, in which case discharge is mandatory). A commander must disclose the reasons for the discharge action in writing to the service member, and must explain reasons for recommending the service be characterized as General (Under Honorable Conditions). The service member is normally required to sign a statement acknowledging receipt and understanding of the notification of pending discharge memorandum. The person is also advised of the right to seek counsel and present supporting statements.

In addition, service members are required to sign documents acknowledging that "substantial prejudice in civilian life" may be encountered under a general discharge. A general discharge may preclude a veteran's participation in the GI Bill, service on veterans' commissions, and other programs for which an honorable discharge is required, but is eligible for VA disability and most other benefits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_discharge" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is the rub, they signed a document explaining the discharge and what it meant. As others have said if he feels this strongly about it he needs to go the route of having his discharge upgraded.

[Gunner4640]

Speaking of Veteran on a CHL I just renewed my Dl and I did not take DD214 or Discharge to get my renewal DL I showed my CHL which has Veteran on it and was told they will not accept it as proof of Veteran status and guess what my new Dl does not have Veteran on it.

[casp625]

Speaking of Veteran on a CHL I just renewed my Dl and I did not take DD214 or Discharge to get my renewal DL I showed my CHL which has Veteran on it and was told they will not accept it as proof of Veteran status and guess what my new Dl does not have Veteran on it.

My DL has "Veteran" on it but they have omitted it from my CHL... Even though I sent in a copy of my DD214 and my *status in the system* shows I have military affiliation

[Mel]

Speaking of Veteran on a CHL I just renewed my Dl and I did not take DD214 or Discharge to get my renewal DL I showed my CHL which has Veteran on it and was told they will not accept it as proof of Veteran status and guess what my new Dl does not have Veteran on it.

Did you have "veteran" on your old drivers license? Are you saying that you must submit DD214 with every renewal?
I would think that once in the system, it should stay. After all, Veteran status does not change.

[sugar land dave]

Every time the people in positions of authority change, the way things are done can change by human error, preference, indifference, or a multitude of other human traits. It's the nature of falling short of the glory of GOD or, if you prefer, we are an inperfect animal. As Bruce Hornsby sang: "That's just the way it is; Some thing's will never change." Adapt and overcome.

[SkipB]

I was going to stay away from this post but I'm going to have my say. An Honorable Discharge is what one gets after completing a commitment of time served in the service. A General Discharge is when the service just gets rid of you for what ever reason. For me looking at that I think you have already got way more than you deserve. When you try to put your situation in the same category as an Honorable Discharged service member is the same as Stolen Valor.

[MeMelYup]

I was going to stay away from this post but I'm going to have my say. An Honorable Discharge is what one gets after completing a commitment of time served in the service. A General Discharge is when the service just gets rid of you for what ever reason. For me looking at that I think you have already got way more than you deserve. When you try to put your situation in the same category as an Honorable Discharged service member is the same as Stolen Valor.

Not necessarily. A Gen With Honorable Condition can be for reasons that you were not able to complete a tour. Use to be, your wife died and you had to take care of the five kids and were nondeployable in a combat arms MOS you had to get out on a hardship discharge. Anything not of a disciplinary nature that a person could not complete their tour. Was elected as a State Representative while on active duty.

[Pawpaw]

I was going to stay away from this post but I'm going to have my say. An Honorable Discharge is what one gets after completing a commitment of time served in the service. A General Discharge is when the service just gets rid of you for what ever reason. For me looking at that I think you have already got way more than you deserve. When you try to put your situation in the same category as an Honorable Discharged service member is the same as Stolen Valor.

That's not 100% true. I knew many people who were offered "early out" (typically with a bonus for doing so) due to force reductions or overages in their specialty. Each and every one of them that voluntarily took the early out, got an honorable discharge.

[Ipconfig]

I was going to stay away from this post but I'm going to have my say. An Honorable Discharge is what one gets after completing a commitment of time served in the service. A General Discharge is when the service just gets rid of you for what ever reason. For me looking at that I think you have already got way more than you deserve. When you try to put your situation in the same category as an Honorable Discharged service member is the same as Stolen Valor.

Not necessarily. A Gen With Honorable Condition can be for reasons that you were not able to complete a tour. Use to be, your wife died and you had to take care of the five kids and were nondeployable in a combat arms MOS you had to get out on a hardship discharge. Anything not of a disciplinary nature that a person could not complete their tour. Was elected as a State Representative while on active duty.

Not quite, I left on a hardship discharge as a single parent and received an Honorable Discharge and was combat arms.

[SkipB]

An early out and a hardship fall under the Honorable Discharge. Not a General Discharge.

[baldeagle]

Ahh, the real question I'm raising is: what does the Texas law really mean? There is no question about the merits of Honorable vs General discharges - never was. The question is what is actually intended by the Texas law makers when they use the term "honorably discharged" instead of "Honorable Discharge". Think about it. I don't really care about the license fee discount but after 58 years, learning that Texas CHL licensing thinks I was NOT honorably discharged is a little annoying when my DD-214 clearly says: separated under HONORABLE conditions.

Honorably discharged means an Honorable Discharge. You were not honorably discharged. You received a General Discharge under Honorable Conditions. I'm struggling trying to understand why you don't seem to grasp that. No matter how hard you try, you can't turn your General Discharge into an Honorable Discharge, with one exception. You can appeal your discharge with your service branch and ask for it to be changed.

You can also contact DPS and ask for a ruling. Arguing about it here will accomplish nothing.

This was the second time I stated this and this was on March 27th. Now here we are two weeks later and you're still arguing about this here on the forum. Have you contacted DPS? Have you contacted the military and asked for an appeal of your discharge status? Nothing you do here is going to accomplish anything. Only DPS and/or the military branch you served in can impact your issue.

[ScooterSissy]

I was in the Navy very briefly (didn't finish boot camp). I had ear problems that I told them about when I enlisted, and the recruiting office said it was acceptable. Once I got in, they examined me and said it was not, and discharged me. I fought it, because I didn't want out, but out I went.

I can't find my copy right now, but I'm almost positive my DD214 said "Under Honorable Conditions"; however, I am positive that I received the veteran's discount.

This used to be an uncomfortable situation for me. I had family and friends that served full tours, some 20 and 30 year gigs, and I always felt I was not a vet. One of them cleared it up for me (not completely, but at least comfortably), when he told me "You volunteered to take the oath, you served honorably for as long as they were willing to let your serve. You're a vet."

I went back and dug up my DD214, but I don't know that it's going to help anything. There are two lines that concern the discharge. Line 9 says TYPE OF SEPARATION and is filled in DISCHARGED. Two lines down, it says CHARACTER OF SERVICE and is filled in HONORABLE.

When I was discharged (and I remember it well, because I fought it) the Navy called the discharge a "General Discharge - Erroneous Enlistment".

As I said earlier, I got my veteran discount.