Gun-unfriendly San Antonio?

[Charlies.Contingency]

I visit San Antonio almost on a daily matter, for personal and professional reasons. Since I've started looking since I've obtained my CHL, I have yet to encounter any except at the hospitals, which we can all assume have them. What kind of places are you visiting? Everyday people doing everyday things, shouldn't have much trouble with 30.06 signs around SA, I can imagine that there are a plethora of signs in the downtown metro, but I like to keep away from places like that.

[VMI77]

Heck, I've heard automatic gunfire at night in certain parts of Dallas.

Back in the 80's and 90's, you would get pulled over and harassed in some parts of San Antonio just because you had a gun hanging in your pickup's rifle rack.

I can't remember the last time I saw a pickup with a rifle rack anywhere, much less one with a gun in it.

Yeah. When I was in high school there were quite a few pickups in the school parking lot with gun racks AND guns. Guess I must be nuts because I'm just not feeling the "freedom" any more.

[Jimbo_47]

Yep, back in the sixties when I got my first pickup truck that was the first thing I did was go down to the Texas Store and buy one of those back window gun racks. Every truck in SA had one and we used to carry a gun in the rack and drive across town heading up to the hill country and never got stopped. It was just a natural thing and nobody even gave you a second look....Well, maybe the thieves!

[jiannichan]

I'll be there April 6-10 for work, but will be bringing my family with me to also use the time as a mini family vacation. Hopefully we can have a good time down there. Haven't been there for almost 10 years now.

[Crash]

I live in Fredericksburg and I know of only one watering hole that posts the 30-06 sign. Of course, you can't carry in medical facilities, post offices, schools, etc., but very, very few businesses here don't allow it.

Crash

[C-dub]

I live in Fredericksburg and I know of only one watering hole that posts the 30-06 sign. Of course, you can't carry in medical facilities, post offices, schools, etc., but very, very few businesses here don't allow it.

Crash

Could you be more specific regarding the term "watering hole?" If you mean bar, they can, but don't have to post 30.06 signs. They do have to post the red 51% sign if they meet the criteria. If you mean some other place, like a restaurant, then my apologies.

And you can carry into medical facilities if they do not post a valid 30.06 sign

[Abraham]

You can carry in a medical facility as long as its not posted with 30.06.

[Jungle Work]

Can somebody tell me how San Antonio gets around the Preemption Statutes on Firearms.

San Antonio doesn't seem to have any defense attornies or maybe they are all afraid of the Politicians and Judges in San Antonio.

Wonder why the TSRA/NRA lets SA get away with it?

I bet they are going to throw a rigger when Texas Legislature puts forth Open Carry and the Governor signs it into law.

Jungle Work

[mojo84]

Can somebody tell me how San Antonio gets around the Preemption Statutes on Firearms.

San Antonio doesn't seem to have any defense attornies or maybe they are all afraid of the Politicians and Judges in San Antonio.

Wonder why the TSRA/NRA lets SA get away with it?

I bet they are going to throw a rigger when Texas Legislature puts forth Open Carry and the Governor signs it into law.

Jungle Work

Can you elaborate on how you think San Antonio is getting around preemption?

[C-dub]

Most of their ordinances were adopted in 1995 or 1996 when L was brand new and they were trying to stop CHL carry in city buildings. A lot of them are now outdated and never have been removed. Much of the preemption code for the state was put into place after CHL was legalized to stop those local ordinance prohibition attempts. So, they really need to update their ordinances in accordance with state law, but we all know they aren't gonna do that unless pushed to edit them.

Indeed. Thankfully there is a new bill that has been introduced to address just that. I hope it sails through the Legislature.

I missed this before. The bill you're referring to, if I'm correct, only addresses 30.06 postings and not these ordinances passed after the CHL law and before 30.06. SA or any other city would only be in trouble if they tried to enforce one of them. It would be nice if the part of the parking lot law were expanded to include government bodies and subdivisions of the state and a penalty were added for any policies or laws prohibiting CHLs.

[treadlightly]

Wow, San Antonio is weird. Not only do they outlaw certain safety features on knives (blade locks, which prevent cut fingers from misusing a knife), but they are nutty on gun ordinances.

From 1959, section 21-26 of their city code:

It shall be unlawful for any person, other than duly authorized peace officers, to carry a loaded rifle or shotgun on any public street within the city or in a motor vehicle while the same is being operated on any public street within the city.

And you can't have silly string during Fiesta San Antonio (section 21-21). I agree it is stupid to spray silly string. A can of silly string should always be respected for its scientific and technical role in society. It's not an aerosol can. It's a target.

From 1994, section 21-23:

City-owned facilities shall not be used for the purpose of staging public consumer gun shows. The city manager and city staff are directed to cease booking events that are open to the public and are primarily devoted to the display and sale of weapons, ammunition, and firearm or military paraphernalia.

Amid the ordinances prohibiting things like anyone under 17 possessing any kind of knife in public, there's 21-157, which sounds like they know they are breaking state law but want to restrict rights anyway. The title of this piece of work (from 1995) is "Carrying of weapons, including concealed handguns, on city-owned premises prohibited; posting of notice."

(a)
It is the intent of the city council to prohibit any person other than a commissioned security officer employed by the city and licensed peace officers from carrying or possessing weapons including concealed handguns on city-owned premises, including city-owned buildings, parking garages, lots, and other parking areas but excluding city-owned or operated public parks, streets and sidewalks.
(b)
It is the intent of the city council that the term weapon shall include a firearm, handgun, club, illegal knife, knife, and any prohibited weapon listed in Texas Penal Code Section 46.05(a) and have the same meaning as said items are defined in Section 46.01, Texas Penal Code.
(c)
The city council directs the city manager, or his designee to post the appropriate signs and such other notice, in accordance with Section 30.05 of the Texas Penal Code (the Criminal Trespass Law), to carry out the city council's above-stated intent.
(d)
The city manager is authorized to take all steps reasonable and necessary to deny entry or continued presence on city-owned premises to all such persons possessing weapons including concealed handguns, including prosecution of such violators for the offense of criminal trespass.

I may start visiting the Riverwalk less.

[Abraham]

S.A. is on my "Do Not Visit List" because of their ordinances.

[mojo84]

I don't think they enforce these outdated ordinances. I've encountered cops on occasions when my car was broken into and other times and they didn't flinch when they realized I was carrying. I've even had a knife clipped in my pocket.

I wouldn't overreact to the old outdated ordinances.

[gljjt]

Wow, San Antonio is weird. Not only do they outlaw certain safety features on knives (blade locks, which prevent cut fingers from misusing a knife), but they are nutty on gun ordinances.

From 1959, section 21-26 of their city code:

It shall be unlawful for any person, other than duly authorized peace officers, to carry a loaded rifle or shotgun on any public street within the city or in a motor vehicle while the same is being operated on any public street within the city.

And you can't have silly string during Fiesta San Antonio (section 21-21). I agree it is stupid to spray silly string. A can of silly string should always be respected for its scientific and technical role in society. It's not an aerosol can. It's a target.

From 1994, section 21-23:

City-owned facilities shall not be used for the purpose of staging public consumer gun shows. The city manager and city staff are directed to cease booking events that are open to the public and are primarily devoted to the display and sale of weapons, ammunition, and firearm or military paraphernalia.

Amid the ordinances prohibiting things like anyone under 17 possessing any kind of knife in public, there's 21-157, which sounds like they know they are breaking state law but want to restrict rights anyway. The title of this piece of work (from 1995) is "Carrying of weapons, including concealed handguns, on city-owned premises prohibited; posting of notice."

(a)
It is the intent of the city council to prohibit any person other than a commissioned security officer employed by the city and licensed peace officers from carrying or possessing weapons including concealed handguns on city-owned premises, including city-owned buildings, parking garages, lots, and other parking areas but excluding city-owned or operated public parks, streets and sidewalks.
(b)
It is the intent of the city council that the term weapon shall include a firearm, handgun, club, illegal knife, knife, and any prohibited weapon listed in Texas Penal Code Section 46.05(a) and have the same meaning as said items are defined in Section 46.01, Texas Penal Code.
(c)
The city council directs the city manager, or his designee to post the appropriate signs and such other notice, in accordance with Section 30.05 of the Texas Penal Code (the Criminal Trespass Law), to carry out the city council's above-stated intent.
(d)
The city manager is authorized to take all steps reasonable and necessary to deny entry or continued presence on city-owned premises to all such persons possessing weapons including concealed handguns, including prosecution of such violators for the offense of criminal trespass.

I may start visiting the Riverwalk less.

We are the riverwalk now. 51% locations are the bigger concern from what I see. And I am carrying.

[Jungle Work]

Mojo84,

http://www.ksat.com/content/pns/ksat/ne ... o-law.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.woai.com/articles/woai-local ... -12212839/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Straight out of San Antonio. Wonder how much the 19 year old will get from the San Antonio Lottery?

I hope this helps.

SUBTITLE A. MUNICIPAL REGULATORY AUTHORITY

CHAPTER 229. MISCELLANEOUS REGULATORY AUTHORITY OF MUNICIPALITIES

SUBCHAPTER A. REGULATION OF FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES

Sec. 229.001. FIREARMS; AIR GUNS; EXPLOSIVES. (a) Notwithstanding any other law, including Section 43.002 of this code and Chapter 251, Agriculture Code, a municipality may not adopt regulations relating to:

(1) the transfer, private ownership, keeping, transportation, licensing, or registration of firearms, air guns, ammunition, or firearm or air gun supplies; or

(2) the discharge of a firearm or air gun at a sport shooting range.

(b) Subsection (a) does not affect the authority a municipality has under another law to:

(1) require residents or public employees to be armed for personal or national defense, law enforcement, or another lawful purpose;

(2) regulate the discharge of firearms or air guns within the limits of the municipality, other than at a sport shooting range;

(3) regulate the use of property, the location of a business, or uses at a business under the municipality's fire code, zoning ordinance, or land-use regulations as long as the code, ordinance, or regulations are not used to circumvent the intent of Subsection (a) or Subdivision (5) of this subsection;

(4) regulate the use of firearms or air guns in the case of an insurrection, riot, or natural disaster if the municipality finds the regulations necessary to protect public health and safety;

(5) regulate the storage or transportation of explosives to protect public health and safety, except that 25 pounds or less of black powder for each private residence and 50 pounds or less of black powder for each retail dealer are not subject to regulation;

(6) regulate the carrying of a firearm or air gun by a person other than a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, at a:

(A) public park;

(B) public meeting of a municipality, county, or other governmental body;

(C) political rally, parade, or official political meeting; or

(D) nonfirearms-related school, college, or professional athletic event;

(7) regulate the hours of operation of a sport shooting range, except that the hours of operation may not be more limited than the least limited hours of operation of any other business in the municipality other than a business permitted or licensed to sell or serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption; or

(8) regulate the carrying of an air gun by a minor on:

(A) public property; or

(B) private property without consent of the property owner.

(c) The exception provided by Subsection (b)(6) does not apply if the firearm or air gun is in or is carried to or from an area designated for use in a lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting event and the firearm or air gun is of the type commonly used in the activity.

(d) The exception provided by Subsection (b)(4) does not authorize the seizure or confiscation of any firearm, air gun, or ammunition from an individual who is lawfully carrying or possessing the firearm, air gun, or ammunition.

Jungle Work