Chl in Church

[jmra]

Welcome to the Forum!

Yes you may carry in church if there is not a 30.06 sign and someone who is actual authority (not just a deacon) tells you that you are forbidden to carry. I would not ask anyone if you can or can't I would just keep concealed and carry on.

I am a pastor and I require all of my staff members to have a CHL.

How neat! My church has a school as well, so I'm assuming carrying there is a no-go. I don't have my license yet, but I'm learning as much as I can now.

Depends on the kind of school and if it meets the state's definition of a school. Sunday school does not meet that definition.

It's a K-12 private school.

Same building or attached? Mine also has K-8, but not in the same building or attached. So, I carry in church.

There can also be a number of variables. A charter school leases our church but the way the lease is set up it is only leased and under the control of the school during school hours. So according to the lawyers carry during non school hours is not an issue.

[jbarn]

Do not carry if you are working as a volunteer on a "security" team.

Instead, join the safety team.

It doesn't matter if they are called the comedy team, If their mission meets the definition of guard in the Private Security Act, 1702 of the Occupations Code, they need licensing.

And it's against the law to spit on the sidewalk. Show me an example of a member of a church "safety team" being fined or charged under the private security act.

No, it is not against the law to spit on the sidewalk.

Regardless of what they are called, if their role consist of any of the following licensing is required;

(1) prevent entry, larceny, vandalism, abuse, fire, or
trespass on private property;
(2) prevent, observe, or detect unauthorized activity
on private property;
(3) control, regulate, or direct the movement of the
public, whether by vehicle or otherwise, only to the extent and for
the time directly and specifically required to ensure the
protection of property;
(4) protect an individual from bodily harm including
through the use of a personal protection officer; or
(5) perform a function similar to a function listed in
this section.

Since thread is about CHL in church then my answers are based on carrying a handgun while performing the functions.

I don't have a resource to search for PSB administrative or criminal cases. DO YOU? What I do have is a license as a qualified manager, meaning I have the requisite experience and have passed a test administered by the Bureau. Have you? I have 20 plus years experience.
I am also aware that this very topic became enough of an issue that the PSB placed their ruling on the PSB website around 2007
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/PSB/La ... in_sum.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
May 10, 2007
A volunteer security patrol made up of church members would generally require licensing under the provisions of Section 1702.108 or 1702.222, regardless of whether any compensation is received as a result of the activities. The only exception to licensing provided by the legislature for nonprofit and civic organizations is found in Section 1702.327, which applies specifically to nonprofit and civic organizations that employ peace officers under certain circumstances and would not be applicable here.

However, there is one exception to licensing under Chapter 1702 provided by the legislature that could arguably apply, which can be found in section 1702.323 (“Security department of Private Business”). This exception would allow volunteers to provide security services exclusively for one church, as long as they do not carry firearms and as long as they do not wear “a uniform with any type of badge commonly associated with security personnel or law enforcement or a patch or apparel with ‘security’ on the patch or apparel.” See Tex. Occ. Code §1702.323(a) & (d)(2). Thus, the wearing of a uniform or any apparel containing the word “security” would subject them to the licensing requirements of the act.

[carlson1]

If it is a church sponsored school you can get written permission to carry.

[jbarn]

Welcome to the Forum!

Yes you may carry in church if there is not a 30.06 sign and someone who is actual authority (not just a deacon) tells you that you are forbidden to carry. I would not ask anyone if you can or can't I would just keep concealed and carry on.

I am a pastor and I require all of my staff members to have a CHL.

How neat! My church has a school as well, so I'm assuming carrying there is a no-go. I don't have my license yet, but I'm learning as much as I can now.

Depends on the kind of school and if it meets the state's definition of a school. Sunday school does not meet that definition.

Where is the definition of school that is referenced in penal code 46.03?

[C-dub]

Welcome to the Forum!

Yes you may carry in church if there is not a 30.06 sign and someone who is actual authority (not just a deacon) tells you that you are forbidden to carry. I would not ask anyone if you can or can't I would just keep concealed and carry on.

I am a pastor and I require all of my staff members to have a CHL.

How neat! My church has a school as well, so I'm assuming carrying there is a no-go. I don't have my license yet, but I'm learning as much as I can now.

Depends on the kind of school and if it meets the state's definition of a school. Sunday school does not meet that definition.

Where is the definition of school that is referenced in penal code 46.03?

This is all I can find so far. I figure the public schools are obvious, so this about the private schools.
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... .htm#5.001" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jmra]

Do not carry if you are working as a volunteer on a "security" team.

Instead, join the safety team.

It doesn't matter if they are called the comedy team, If their mission meets the definition of guard in the Private Security Act, 1702 of the Occupations Code, they need licensing.

And it's against the law to spit on the sidewalk. Show me an example of a member of a church "safety team" being fined or charged under the private security act.

No, it is not against the law to spit on the sidewalk.

Regardless of what they are called, if their role consist of any of the following licensing is required;

(1) prevent entry, larceny, vandalism, abuse, fire, or
trespass on private property;
(2) prevent, observe, or detect unauthorized activity
on private property;
(3) control, regulate, or direct the movement of the
public, whether by vehicle or otherwise, only to the extent and for
the time directly and specifically required to ensure the
protection of property;
(4) protect an individual from bodily harm including
through the use of a personal protection officer; or
(5) perform a function similar to a function listed in
this section.

Since thread is about CHL in church then my answers are based on carrying a handgun while performing the functions.

I don't have a resource to search for PSB administrative or criminal cases. DO YOU? What I do have is a license as a qualified manager, meaning I have the requisite experience and have passed a test administered by the Bureau. Have you? I have 20 plus years experience.
I am also aware that this very topic became enough of an issue that the PSB placed their ruling on the PSB website around 2007
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/PSB/La ... in_sum.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
May 10, 2007
A volunteer security patrol made up of church members would generally require licensing under the provisions of Section 1702.108 or 1702.222, regardless of whether any compensation is received as a result of the activities. The only exception to licensing provided by the legislature for nonprofit and civic organizations is found in Section 1702.327, which applies specifically to nonprofit and civic organizations that employ peace officers under certain circumstances and would not be applicable here.

However, there is one exception to licensing under Chapter 1702 provided by the legislature that could arguably apply, which can be found in section 1702.323 (“Security department of Private Business”). This exception would allow volunteers to provide security services exclusively for one church, as long as they do not carry firearms and as long as they do not wear “a uniform with any type of badge commonly associated with security personnel or law enforcement or a patch or apparel with ‘security’ on the patch or apparel.” See Tex. Occ. Code §1702.323(a) & (d)(2). Thus, the wearing of a uniform or any apparel containing the word “security” would subject them to the licensing requirements of the act.

So, the answer is you can't provide a single instance - that's what I thought.

[carlson1]

Here is an old discussion that gave me a lot information years ago.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=197&hilit=church+school" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Selina Kyle]

Here is an old discussion that gave me a lot information years ago.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=197&hilit=church+school" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks so much!!

[Cedar Park Dad]

Do not carry if you are working as a volunteer on a "security" team.

Instead, join the safety team.

It doesn't matter if they are called the comedy team, If their mission meets the definition of guard in the Private Security Act, 1702 of the Occupations Code, they need licensing.

And it's against the law to spit on the sidewalk. Show me an example of a member of a church "safety team" being fined or charged under the private security act.

We just call ours "ushers."

If we're on the safety team, do we have to do the "safety dance?" sorry couldn't resist.

protip. If you've carrying in a church that does that kneeling thing, be sure your jacket/shirt is sufficiently long to cover when you're in that position.

[jmra]

Do not carry if you are working as a volunteer on a "security" team.

Instead, join the safety team.

It doesn't matter if they are called the comedy team, If their mission meets the definition of guard in the Private Security Act, 1702 of the Occupations Code, they need licensing.

And it's against the law to spit on the sidewalk. Show me an example of a member of a church "safety team" being fined or charged under the private security act.

We just call ours "ushers."

If we're on the safety team, do we have to do the "safety dance?"

Don't knock it till you've tried it.

[C-dub]

protip. If you've carrying in a church that does that kneeling thing, be sure your jacket/shirt is sufficiently long to cover when you're in that position.

The issue for me isn't the kneeling position itself, but rather the getting to and from that. It's kinda like bending over to pick things up off the bottom shelf in the store.

[Jason K]

We just call ours "ushers."

If we're on the safety team, do we have to do the "safety dance?"
Don't knock it till you've tried it.

You can dance if you want to......

[ScottDLS]

Do not carry if you are working as a volunteer on a "security" team.

Instead, join the safety team.

It doesn't matter if they are called the comedy team, If their mission meets the definition of guard in the Private Security Act, 1702 of the Occupations Code, they need licensing.

And it's against the law to spit on the sidewalk. Show me an example of a member of a church "safety team" being fined or charged under the private security act.

No, it is not against the law to spit on the sidewalk.

Regardless of what they are called, if their role consist of any of the following licensing is required;
...
...

So, the answer is you can't provide a single instance - that's what I thought.

Hair braiding requires a cosmetology license.
Little Sally's lemonade stand requires a F&B permit.
No "civilian" in the state of Vermont can carry in a school zone.
Unlicensed flower arranging prohibited in Louisiana.

Spitting on the sidewalk... mmm... could be Disorderly Conduct depending on the particulars.

[goose]

You can dance if you want to......

Hard Shell Baptists please disregard the above heracy. :-)

[mojo84]

You can dance if you want to......

Hard Shell Baptists please disregard the above heracy. :-)

We don't dance. May move to music but don't dance.