Police want to check your serial #

[Texas1999]

A serial number on a firearm is not in "plain sight." In fact you've got to first seize the weapon and then look closely at it to even read the serial number. While the law allows an LEO to disarm a CHL holder for safety purposes, under the 4th Amendment the LEO still needs PC to "search" the weapon, which would include an investigation into its serial number (unless you are dumb enough to consent to it).

Again, it's analogous to having a laptop in "plain sight" on your passenger seat. The officer can only seize it and search it (which includes running the serial number) if he has PC to believe it is stolen or has been used in the commission of a crime. Again, unless you're dumb enough to give consent to a blanket search of your vehicle.

Of course, this is all pretty much a non-issue unless the search of your firearm does, in fact, result in criminal charges, in which case your attorney could move to suppress the evidence based on the search being illegal.

[dac1842]

An officer that exercises his lawful authority needs no further burden to run your serial number.
If you have been stopped, probable cause has been established. Even prior to CHL, an officer had the legal right to a warrant less search of any part of your car within reach of the driver. If the officer found a weapon, he needed no further authority to run the serial number.

[srothstein]

Dac1842, you are almost correct. An officer has the authority for a warrantless search of the car IF there is probable cause to justify the search. An officer cannot stop the car for speeding, order the person out of the car, and conduct a search with no further probable cause.

Even if we go with a Terry frisk of the car (where the within lunging distance of the driver comes from), the decision requires the officer to have reasonable, articulable, suspicion that this stop is somehow more dangerous to his life than other traffic stops. it must be specific to the stop. Many officers forget that part of the Terry case and it applies to all frisks. Frisks are also limited to a check for weapons, though if something else is found during the frisk it might be admissible.

On the original subject, I think the officer can legally disarm the person under the law IF he can say why it is safety related. The only time you get to question this is if you take him to court though, as the law does not give you the right to question it there. Once the officer has the weapon, if he can read the serial number, he can run it under the plain view doctrine. Nothing in the law allows him to remove a cover or dismantle the gun to read the serial number and nothing specifically allows the officer to run the number. Interestingly, nothing in the law allows the officer to unload the firearm either, and this practice is of dubious safety (as an example, there was a San Antonio officer who shot himself recently unloading his own weapon) and legality. The law does say the officer must return the weapon, which can be construed as returning it in the same condition as it was handed to him. I don't see this issue ever going to court though.

Academically, this is a very interesting area to discuss the finer points of search and seizure law. In reality, I doubt anything will ever be decided on this. I don't see most CHLs as the type of people who will sue over this as an infringement of their rights, especially since there is no real damages. And I also don't see any CHLs being arrested for this as a result of the search. This means that this is probably never getting to a court to be decided.

[JP171]

An officer that exercises his lawful authority needs no further burden to run your serial number.
If you have been stopped, probable cause has been established. Even prior to CHL, an officer had the legal right to a warrant less search of any part of your car within reach of the driver. If the officer found a weapon, he needed no further authority to run the serial number.

SR beat me to it, but I leave my post
an officer does NOT have legal authority to search your vehicle unless there is probable cause and a traffic stop has been ruled by SCOTUS as NOT being grounds to search a vehicle in ANY form, he may search you but not your vehicle he may NOT search your phone either. so the part about being in reach of the driver is WRONG in any form/case or fantasy. if you are carrying a weapon legally that does NOT give probable cause to run the serial number anymore than it gives him the right to run your cell phone serial number nor to look just to see whats on it, nor are they allowed to use that little phone device to read the contents. He does need probable cause to run the SN of any item you are carrying and any item he may see in your vehicle. look it up

[nightmare69]

An officer that exercises his lawful authority needs no further burden to run your serial number.
If you have been stopped, probable cause has been established. Even prior to CHL, an officer had the legal right to a warrant less search of any part of your car within reach of the driver. If the officer found a weapon, he needed no further authority to run the serial number.

SR beat me to it, but I leave my post
an officer does NOT have legal authority to search your vehicle unless there is probable cause and a traffic stop has been ruled by SCOTUS as NOT being grounds to search a vehicle in ANY form, he may search you but not your vehicle he may NOT search your phone either. so the part about being in reach of the driver is WRONG in any form/case or fantasy. if you are carrying a weapon legally that does NOT give probable cause to run the serial number anymore than it gives him the right to run your cell phone serial number nor to look just to see whats on it, nor are they allowed to use that little phone device to read the contents. He does need probable cause to run the SN of any item you are carrying and any item he may see in your vehicle. look it up

Arizona v Gant allows warrentless searches under certain circumstances for officer safety of unlocked compartments within the wingspan of the driver.

An officer may seize a cellphone without a warrent due to extigent circumstances but must get a warrent to view or search it's content.

[TomsTXCHL]

As a practical matter, I never (EVER) would hand my loaded weapon to anyone (except I suppose if we're side-by-side on the range shooting the thing, though I've never done THAT either).

So if I am asked to produce my CCW, and it is in e.g. a pocket holster, cocked & locked, am I expected to hand it over as-is?

Does every LEO on Planet Earth know how to handle and e.g. de-cock and/or unload every firearm every made?

[TEA]

As a practical matter, I never (EVER) would hand my loaded weapon to anyone (except I suppose if we're side-by-side on the range shooting the thing, though I've never done THAT either).

So if I am asked to produce my CCW, and it is in e.g. a pocket holster, cocked & locked, am I expected to hand it over as-is?

Does every LEO on Planet Earth know how to handle and e.g. de-cock and/or unload every firearm every made?

You beat me to it. I didn't even think to ask this question during my CHL class. I just ASSumed that if an LEO asked for my firearm that I would make it safe (i.e. remove the magazine and unload the chamber) prior to handing it over. Would an LEO have reason to object to this?

[Jaguar]

As a practical matter, I never (EVER) would hand my loaded weapon to anyone (except I suppose if we're side-by-side on the range shooting the thing, though I've never done THAT either).

So if I am asked to produce my CCW, and it is in e.g. a pocket holster, cocked & locked, am I expected to hand it over as-is?

Does every LEO on Planet Earth know how to handle and e.g. de-cock and/or unload every firearm every made?

You beat me to it. I didn't even think to ask this question during my CHL class. I just ASSumed that if an LEO asked for my firearm that I would make it safe (i.e. remove the magazine and unload the chamber) prior to handing it over. Would an LEO have reason to object to this?

Yes, they would object. Remember the reason they wish to disarm you is for officer safety, I seriously doubt they would be okay with you putting your hands anywhere near the firearm. Most likely they will have you put your hands on your head and take it off you - just hope they know what they are doing and don't shoot you accidentally.

[rotor]

As a practical matter, I never (EVER) would hand my loaded weapon to anyone (except I suppose if we're side-by-side on the range shooting the thing, though I've never done THAT either).

So if I am asked to produce my CCW, and it is in e.g. a pocket holster, cocked & locked, am I expected to hand it over as-is?

Does every LEO on Planet Earth know how to handle and e.g. de-cock and/or unload every firearm every made?

You beat me to it. I didn't even think to ask this question during my CHL class. I just ASSumed that if an LEO asked for my firearm that I would make it safe (i.e. remove the magazine and unload the chamber) prior to handing it over. Would an LEO have reason to object to this?

Yes, they would object. Remember the reason they wish to disarm you is for officer safety, I seriously doubt they would be okay with you putting your hands anywhere near the firearm. Most likely they will have you put your hands on your head and take it off you - just hope they know what they are doing and don't shoot you accidentally.

The way I carry, deep frontal, they better grab the right thing if my hands are over my head.

[Jaguar]

As a practical matter, I never (EVER) would hand my loaded weapon to anyone (except I suppose if we're side-by-side on the range shooting the thing, though I've never done THAT either).

So if I am asked to produce my CCW, and it is in e.g. a pocket holster, cocked & locked, am I expected to hand it over as-is?

Does every LEO on Planet Earth know how to handle and e.g. de-cock and/or unload every firearm every made?

You beat me to it. I didn't even think to ask this question during my CHL class. I just ASSumed that if an LEO asked for my firearm that I would make it safe (i.e. remove the magazine and unload the chamber) prior to handing it over. Would an LEO have reason to object to this?

Yes, they would object. Remember the reason they wish to disarm you is for officer safety, I seriously doubt they would be okay with you putting your hands anywhere near the firearm. Most likely they will have you put your hands on your head and take it off you - just hope they know what they are doing and don't shoot you accidentally.

The way I carry, deep frontal, they better grab the right thing if my hands are over my head.

Just relax and enjoy the moment, they are trained professionals.

[ShootDontTalk]

Does every LEO on Planet Earth know how to handle and e.g. de-cock and/or unload every firearm every made?

You would be shocked to learn the high percentage of LEO recruits who have never even touched a weapon of any kind prior to their first range experience. The answer to your question is no. A great many officers know absolutely nothing about firearms save their duty weapon, which they know how to holster/unholster, aim, pull the trigger, and reload. You might be equally shocked at how many departments skate when it comes to annual (or bi-annual) qualifications. You would be equally terrified at the condition of many officers weapons that spend a year in the holster without ever being taken out and checked. Were I to watch such a "master of arms" attempt to unload my weapon, I would begin a new chapter in earnest prayer.

But, on the other hand, many are very competent and are real "gun people." While I was away the alarm in our home went off and HPD was dispatched. Due to it taking a while for the officer and backup to arrive and clear the house, my wife sat in the truck in the driveway with her S&W Shield 9mm and mags on the seat next to her, just in case. After the incident was over, the officers chatted with her and they swapped gun stories. She allowed them to look at the little Shield and she was impressed with both officers. Great public servants and true gun people. Made me feel much better. I doubt they ever feel unsafe around CHL's.

[TEA]

Does every LEO on Planet Earth know how to handle and e.g. de-cock and/or unload every firearm every made?

You would be shocked to learn the high percentage of LEO recruits who have never even touched a weapon of any kind prior to their first range experience. The answer to your question is no. A great many officers know absolutely nothing about firearms save their duty weapon, which they know how to holster/unholster, aim, pull the trigger, and reload. You might be equally shocked at how many departments skate when it comes to annual (or bi-annual) qualifications. You would be equally terrified at the condition of many officers weapons that spend a year in the holster without ever being taken out and checked. Were I to watch such a "master of arms" attempt to unload my weapon, I would begin a new chapter in earnest prayer.

But, on the other hand, many are very competent and are real "gun people." While I was away the alarm in our home went off and HPD was dispatched. Due to it taking a while for the officer and backup to arrive and clear the house, my wife sat in the truck in the driveway with her S&W Shield 9mm and mags on the seat next to her, just in case. After the incident was over, the officers chatted with her and they swapped gun stories. She allowed them to look at the little Shield and she was impressed with both officers. Great public servants and true gun people. Made me feel much better. I doubt they ever feel unsafe around CHL's.

Unfortunately, I suspect those who are most likely to feel unsafe around a CHL holder who is carrying are the ones who fall into the first category you describe.

[TomsTXCHL]

As a practical matter, I never (EVER) would hand my loaded weapon to anyone (except I suppose if we're side-by-side on the range shooting the thing, though I've never done THAT either).

So if I am asked to produce my CCW, and it is in e.g. a pocket holster, cocked & locked, am I expected to hand it over as-is?

Did I miss it, or is the answer to this question absolutely "hand it over as-is"...?

Any LEO here who can respond?

[nightmare69]

As a practical matter, I never (EVER) would hand my loaded weapon to anyone (except I suppose if we're side-by-side on the range shooting the thing, though I've never done THAT either).

So if I am asked to produce my CCW, and it is in e.g. a pocket holster, cocked & locked, am I expected to hand it over as-is?

Did I miss it, or is the answer to this question absolutely "hand it over as-is"...?

Any LEO here who can respond?

The last thing an LEO wants is you to put your hands on the weapon. If they want to disarm you, they will remove the weapon.

[Jaguar]

GC §411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual.

If the officer believes it is necessary to disarm a license holder (again, for the protection of himself or other is the only reason they can do this) you can bet they don't want you to pull it out. An officer saying, "go ahead and pull out your weapon, clear it, and hand it to me" indicates he has no fear for himself or others, and thus he has no reason to disarm.