Legal Carry on College Campuses

[TEA]

Update:

My proposal is on the agenda for discussion at this Friday's Faculty Association meeting. After discussing the process with the president of our association, the proposal will be introduced and discussed at this Friday's meeting, then a committee will be formed to research this issue and report back to the association at the next meeting at which time we will debate and vote on the proposal.

[TEA]

Update:

I don't think I did a great job in selling my proposal. Allowed the the discussion to to much on self defense and not enough on deterrence. One area of broad agreement, though, was that we needed to be able to accurately represent what the faculty's point of view on this topic is rather than allow the BOR, the administration and TCCTA claim that they represent us without having asked for our opinion. To this end, we are going to conduct a poll of all of the faculty to see where we stand on the issue and move on from there. The three poll questions we're working on right now are:

Would you support a policy that would allow faculty and staff who hold a CHL to carry on campus?
Would you support a policy that would allow faculty, staff and students who hold a CHL to carry on campus?
Do you support the current policy that does not allow the carrying of any firearms on campus regardless of whether or not an individual has a CHL?

[mojo84]

Polls are all about who you ask and how you ask the questions. May consider:

Would you support a common sense policy that would allow faculty and staff who hold a CHL to carry on campus to deter future mass shootings and to help end a threat when it happens on our campus considering this has been proven effective based on available data?

Would you support a common sense policy that would allow faculty, staff and students who hold a CHL to carry on campus to deter future mass shootings and to help end a threat when it happens on our campus considering this has been proven effective based on available data?

Do you support the current illogical policy that does not allow the carrying of any firearms on campus regardless of whether or not a law abiding individual has a CHL and which ensures only criminals and those intent on doing harm are allowed to have weapons on campus. ?

[baldeagle]

Mojo, that's so obviously biased some would refuse to answer it. Yeah, I get your point, but a poll should not be biased. It should solicit honest opinion.

[mojo84]

Mojo, that's so obviously biased some would refuse to answer it. Yeah, I get your point, but a poll should not be biased. It should solicit honest opinion.

It was tongue in cheek. Notice the little smiley face winking.

[TEA]

The survey will ask respondents to select: a) strongly agree, b) agree, c) no opinion, d) disagree, e) strongly disagree with regards to the following statements:

1. I support only faculty and staff CHL holders being allowed to carry concealed handguns on
campus.


2. I support faculty, staff and students who are CHL holders being allowed to carry concealed
handguns on campus


3. I do not support faculty, staff or students carrying weapons or guns of any kind on college
campuses regardless of whether or not the individual has a CHL.

Since I already sent out my proposal and supporting material prior to the Association meeting last week, faculty will already have read my arguments in favor of concealed carry. Here is a copy of the draft of my proposal:

A Resolution to Promote Campus Safety

We the faculty call upon the Hill College Board of Regents to adopt rules that would allow Concealed Handgun License (CHL) holders (hereafter referred to as “licensees”) to exercise their right to carry concealed handguns on Hill College Campuses per the Board’s authority under Penal Code Chapter §46.03 (a)(1). (TAB A) We do not adopt the resolution lightly and do so to promote campus safety and protect the civil rights of the members of the Hill College community based upon the following:

1. The vast majority of mass shootings in recent years have occurred in locations that had rules prohibiting the carrying of firearms upon their premises. Such rules only deter law abiding citizens from carrying firearms and not criminal. Blanket prohibitions from carrying firearms create an environment that is inviting to violent criminals because the intended victims do not have the ability to defend themselves.

2. A study funded by the United States Department of Justice (DOJ) indicates that violent criminals’ fear of armed citizens is a significantly stronger deterrent than their fear of the police. (Wright, James and Peter Rossi, 1994) Allowing licensees the right to carry on campus would serve as a deterrent not only to potential mass shootings, but also to more common forms of violent crime.

3. The right to self-defense is a fundamental human right. Prohibiting licensees, who have undergone a thorough criminal background check, from carrying handguns on campus denies them of their right to self-defense.

4. CHL licensees are 15 times less like to commit crimes than the general public (TAB B – compiled by Charles Cotton based on data publicly available from DPS ), so allowing licensees to carry on campus will not increase the likelihood of violence on campus, particularly since those most likely to commit violent crimes are those most likely to ignore the requirement to have a CHL and the prohibition against carrying firearms on campus.

5. Many faculty and staff currently have a CHL. Under current rules, licensees must store their handgun in their vehicles while on campus. This increases the likelihood that a criminal may obtain a firearm while burglarizing a licensee’s vehicle. In addition to the immediate threat to campus safety that such a theft would pose, because the majority of guns used in crimes are obtained illegally, the theft of a handgun from a licensee’s vehicle would contribute to the overall problem of criminals’ use of guns in violent crimes.

6. Currently, over 70 public school districts in Texas have adopted rules allowing licensees to carry on their campuses. School superintendents from two of these districts have stated that they have had no reports of incidences on any campuses involving licensees nor any reports from students, parents or faculty that these rules have created an environment on campus that stifles free expression of ideas. Similarly, Utah has long allowed licensees to carry on public school, college and university campuses with no adverse effects and Colorado has adopted laws that allow licensees to carry on college and university campuses.

[mojo84]

Good for you for taking this on. Wish you the best.

[mojo84]

Mojo, that's so obviously biased some would refuse to answer it. Yeah, I get your point, but a poll should not be biased. It should solicit honest opinion.

Even though my previous poll suggestions were tongue in cheek, here is an "unbiased" poll I recommend everyone on here answer. http://www.nramedia.org/t/2637489/58607766/35695/8/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Like I said before, it's all in how you phrase the questions and who you ask.

[TEA]

The survey will ask respondents to select: a) strongly agree, b) agree, c) no opinion, d) disagree, e) strongly disagree with regards to the following statements:

1. I support only faculty and staff CHL holders being allowed to carry concealed handguns on
campus.


2. I support faculty, staff and students who are CHL holders being allowed to carry concealed
handguns on campus


3. I do not support faculty, staff or students carrying weapons or guns of any kind on college
campuses regardless of whether or they have a CHL or not.

UPDATE: The vote did not go well.

Q1 - 26 to 24 against
Q2 - 40 to 10 against
Q3 - 33 to 17 in favor

:(

While the results for the first question are fairly evenly split, the results for the second and third are downright disheartening. Not sure where to go from here

[mojo84]

Unfortunately, I'm not surprised. I expected about as much from the world of enlightened academia. I think most gun owners that hang around with mostly like minded friends do not really understand how many, especially those in education, FEEL about guns.

It's an uphill battle in my opinion.

[TexasGal]

Exactly. Another approach would be to put forth the idea they could require more training. For instance, what if they had been presented with the scenario where faculty members had to complete a training program that enhanced gun skills and added safety training for active shooter scenarios before receiving permission to carry? What if the training could be obtained from the same instructors who teach police officers? It may have made no difference at all, but from the conversations I have had in the past with educators, it would have been worth a try.

[DocV]

The survey will ask respondents to select: a) strongly agree, b) agree, c) no opinion, d) disagree, e) strongly disagree with regards to the following statements:

1. I support only faculty and staff CHL holders being allowed to carry concealed handguns on
campus.


2. I support faculty, staff and students who are CHL holders being allowed to carry concealed
handguns on campus


3. I do not support faculty, staff or students carrying weapons or guns of any kind on college
campuses regardless of whether or they have a CHL or not.

UPDATE: The vote did not go well.

Q1 - 26 to 24 against
Q2 - 40 to 10 against
Q3 - 33 to 17 in favor

:(

While the results for the first question are fairly evenly split, the results for the second and third are downright disheartening. Not sure where to go from here

To be as brutally honest here as I can be.

• 1) You failed to educate the voters before embarking on the poll.
  • Many faculty have no clue what a CHL is. Nor do they have any concept of the process of obtaining one or of the required qualifications. That lack of knowledge combined with their observations of the maturity level of their students will guarantee failure of your proposition #3. It is critical to emphasize that CHL holders must pass a criminal background check and be 21 or over.
  • Most faculty perceive that maintaining the safety of their students is an essential responsibility of their job. However, the fact that events and circumstances that can nullify their abilities to control their classroom may be outside of their purview.
  2) The wording of your poll was problematic.
  • The phrase " regardless of whether or they have a CHL or not" in question #3 guarantees failure.
  • Your respondents perceive faculty and staff to be a separate group than students. Your poll should have been designed accordingly. Two questions would have sufficed.
    • 1) I support faculty and staff CHL holders being allowed to carry concealed handguns on campus. (yes or no)
      2) I support student CHL holders being allowed to carry concealed handguns on campus. (yes or no)
  3) A general rule in academia is that whenever you want something not to be done you form a committee to study it.
  • Seriously. If any proposal you make ends up in committee take that as a sign that you needed to lay more support and manage expectations going into the proposal.
  • As aside, I would encourage any new faculty (read new as having fewer than 20 years post-podium) to read the 1908 treatise, Microcosmographia Academica, http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/staff/i ... nford.html. This ancient tome, although somewhat unintelligible to uninitiated, should be required reading for anyone wishing to dabble in the art of academic politics.

[MarshalMatt]

The vote, IMO, is not that all surprising. People tend to fear what they do not understand. I grew up in a household which there were no firearms. That was "left for the police." It was not until I became an adult and LEARNED something for MYSELF and discovered that THEIR view is really the backward one. But, again, it is usually the unenlightened and frightened are the ones who are most resistant to change.

[RogueUSMC]

ooops, wrong thread...