george wrote:Anytime I have asked a LEO to "run a serial number" for me, they said they could not do that, unless part of an investigation.
If that is so, how can they just run the serial number for a traffic stop?
Because it is an inquiry persuant to investigating a traffic offense.
How so? Did the gun make them commit said traffic offense?
n5wd wrote:As appropriate as running your DL and vehicle registration during a traffic stop.
Now that is appropriate... Since you can't commit a traffic offense without driving, you must have driver's license. Similarly, you're required to have insurance to drive.
I am not a lawyer, nor have I played one on TV, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, nor should anything I say be taken as legal advice. If it is important that any information be accurate, do not use me as the only source.
I am a former LEO. I am a supporter of LE. I have BTDT, and am off out by people who have no idea about LE or actual case law, or never even heard of Terry or Carroll trying to second guess LEO's.
That said, If they run serials of guns should they not check your computer in the bag, your cell phone, perhaps your camera if you have one? Maybe your GPS unit...........
GC §411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
(a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license holder.
Yep got to agree that will start to go south in a hurry.
cw3van
Retired LEO
NRA Life Member, TSRA Life Member,
jbarn wrote:I am a former LEO. I am a supporter of LE. I have BTDT, and am off out by people who have no idea about LE or actual case law, or never even heard of Terry or Carroll trying to second guess LEO's.
That said, If they run serials of guns should they not check your computer in the bag, your cell phone, perhaps your camera if you have one? Maybe your GPS unit...........
I think what Jbarn is saying is, he used to be in Law Enforcement, is now a CHL instructor, and is often out in the world with non law enforcement types. (the folks) Who didn't have to study the law, court cases, and such for their profession. Some, now have the audacity to question the motives of some who get paid from our taxes. That being said, if the government can check the serials of our weapons, shouldn't some other government stooge check over your laptop and and other personal items to keep you safe?
The answer is no. Lots of folks are CHL holders, more and more in Texas. Most people, all over the country, don't think carrying a concealed weapon is necessary, not to mention safe. They think the government will ALWAYS protect them. We know better. In the same vein, most people think giving up a little freedom means more security. We know that leads down another path. No, we shouldn't have to take our shoes off to get on a flight. No, our personal property should NOT be gone through, any time a government agent wants to. No, our phone calls, emails, web traffic should be our business, and not an any way, shape, or form the governments business. The sad part is, we are long past that. When you get stopped, if asked, hand it over. Even if you bought it new, it's not that much trouble right?
7.30.08 -- Plastic in hand (99 days)
04.01.18--2nd Renewal
05.05.18-- Plastic
Put a frog into a pot of boiling water he will jump out immediately. However, put a frog into a pot of room temp water and slowly heat it up and he will sit there until its too late and the heat has overcome him.
I thought JBarn was questioning the premise for checking the serial number. Usually, the premise is to see if it is stolen or to make sure it is not. I thought he was questioning why other things that are more commonly stolen are not routinely checked and might have a higher value for the same reason.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016. NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member---------------------------------------------Si vis pacem, para bellum.................................................Patriot Guard Rider
Carzan wrote:Put a frog into a pot of boiling water he will jump out immediately. However, put a frog into a pot of room temp water and slowly heat it up and he will sit there until its too late and the heat has overcome him.
The government is taking the second approach.
And it sounds like your science classes in school were a bit different than mine. Either that or, do your parents know what was really going on out in their garage?
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016. NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member---------------------------------------------Si vis pacem, para bellum.................................................Patriot Guard Rider
Carzan wrote:Put a frog into a pot of boiling water he will jump out immediately. However, put a frog into a pot of room temp water and slowly heat it up and he will sit there until its too late and the heat has overcome him.
The government is taking the second approach.
And it sounds like your science classes in school were a bit different than mine. Either that or, do your parents know what was really going on out in their garage?
Actually, I don't even know if it's true. I heard that somewhere and it makes a really good analogy for this discussion. I bet the frog actually jumps out in each scenario.
Carzan wrote:Put a frog into a pot of boiling water he will jump out immediately. However, put a frog into a pot of room temp water and slowly heat it up and he will sit there until its too late and the heat has overcome him.
The government is taking the second approach.
And it sounds like your science classes in school were a bit different than mine. Either that or, do your parents know what was really going on out in their garage?
Actually, I don't even know if it's true. I heard that somewhere and it makes a really good analogy for this discussion. I bet the frog actually jumps out in each scenario.
Ask jumpingfrog.
Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.
John Wayne
NRA Lifetime member
Carzan wrote:Put a frog into a pot of boiling water he will jump out immediately. However, put a frog into a pot of room temp water and slowly heat it up and he will sit there until its too late and the heat has overcome him.
The government is taking the second approach.
The Cajun side of me just got hungry and its too early even for breakfast. Thanks.
Running firearm serial numbers during a traffic stop for a moving violation is a violation of the 4th amendment no matter how you justify it. You can't make something right just buy saying it is. Doing this is just the same as the new york city stop and frisk.
Anygunanywhere
Last edited by anygunanywhere on Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." Mike Vanderboegh
"The Smallest Minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." – Ayn Rand
anygunanywhere wrote:Running firearm serial numbers duering a traffic stop for a moving violation is a violation of the 4th amendment no matter how you justify it. You can't make something right just buy saying it is. Doing this is just the same as the new yoor city stop and frisk.
Anygunanywhere
100% i am not against LE when it stays within it's capacity. Unfortunately we have gotten to a point where SOME, NOT ALL have gotten too big for their britches. the problem needs to be resolved before ALL get bigger pants and we lose ours.....
"Our houses are protected by the Good Lord and a gun, you might em both if you show up here not welcome son" Josh Thompson- Way out here (best song ever) "eventually all citizens will become criminals with enough legislation....."
jbarn wrote:I am a former LEO. I am a supporter of LE. I have BTDT, and am off out by people who have no idea about LE or actual case law, or never even heard of Terry or Carroll trying to second guess LEO's.
That said, If they run serials of guns should they not check your computer in the bag, your cell phone, perhaps your camera if you have one? Maybe your GPS unit...........
Er...what?
What I am saying is that most people don't have a clue about LE work, even though they like to second guess LE. The rhetoric about taxes is just that.
however, even as a former LEO who defends LEOs, I don't see the justification for checking serial numbers of firearms on traffic stops. Do they check all of your property to see if it is stolen? Of course not, so there is no justification for checking firearm serials, even though some do. I oppose it.
C-dub wrote:I thought JBarn was questioning the premise for checking the serial number. Usually, the premise is to see if it is stolen or to make sure it is not. I thought he was questioning why other things that are more commonly stolen are not routinely checked and might have a higher value for the same reason.
Right. We would jump up and down, and rightfully so, if your GPS device, laptop, camera, etc was run for stolen on every traffic stop. Why is our firearm different? I have no disagreement with disclosing I carry, or surrendering the handgun if an officer wants to. But running serials is just wrong, IMO.
Yep got to agree that will start to go south in a hurry.
