Why exactly does Texas not have open carry?

[anygunanywhere]

03L,
Just because people criticize a part of our government (local, state, or federal) why does it have to mean that they're criticizing the state itself?
Based on your response, you're taking a perceived insult to the state pretty personally. I don't think that's what was intended.

And I don't thing suggesting that people leave is the best solution for the state. If you like things exactly the way they are, then anyone wanting to change anything should leave.. Some us might disagree or might want to have a respectful discussion.

Based on what I read of Dori's posts, she(?) is not looking for meaningful dialogue, but more in the line of drive by digs.

Anygunanywhere

[jmra]

03L,
Just because people criticize a part of our government (local, state, or federal) why does it have to mean that they're criticizing the state itself?
Based on your response, you're taking a perceived insult to the state pretty personally. I don't think that's what was intended.

And I don't thing suggesting that people leave is the best solution for the state. If you like things exactly the way they are, then anyone wanting to change anything should leave.. Some us might disagree or might want to have a respectful discussion.

Based on what I read of Dori's posts, she(?) is not looking for meaningful dialogue, but more in the line of drive by digs.

Anygunanywhere

[03Lightningrocks]

03L,
Just because people criticize a part of our government (local, state, or federal) why does it have to mean that they're criticizing the state itself?
Based on your response, you're taking a perceived insult to the state pretty personally. I don't think that's what was intended.

And I don't thing suggesting that people leave is the best solution for the state. If you like things exactly the way they are, then anyone wanting to change anything should leave.. Some us might disagree or might want to have a respectful discussion.

Based on what I read of Dori's posts, she(?) is not looking for meaningful dialogue, but more in the line of drive by digs.

Anygunanywhere

Exactly why i called the poster out! And then put the poster on ignore.

[txbirddog]

After reading more of these threads debating open carry than I can count, I have noticed a couple common denominators. Not one person has ever posted,"I'm against open carry". Many have said they would not do it for one reason or the other but it is always posted that they would not be against it as long as it did not pose a risk to our CC rights.

I have also noticed the one and only concern anyone has ever expressed about changing the law to allow open carry is a concern for this creating less places we can conceal carry.

Do the open carry radicals express any desire to address these concerns? NEVER! Dismissing concerns expressed by others as irrelevant is not the same as addressing them.

There will never be open carry until this changes. Want open carry to be legalized? Start proposing solutions that will address the one and only objection ever expressed by the ONLY people in this state who you might be able to persuade to join your cause.

I am a proponent of open carry. I would not want to change 30.06 at all. I am for signage that would be vastly different and not related to 30.06 if someone wanted to prohibit OC in their business. I will OC regularly when it passes. That pretty much takes care of it. Thanks.

But it would change 30.06,,,,,,it would greatly increase the number of businesses that would prohibit carrying,,,,,,,,we (chl holders) number around 2-3% of the residents of Texas,,,,,,,,worst case that makes 97 people to 3 of telling business owners they will take their dollars elsewhere if they "don't do what we like",,,,,,,BEST CASE WOULD BE 30:1,,,,,,,,now as a business owner trying to be profitable,,,,,,,,what customers would YOU cater to??????

I go to OK every month and have yet to see anyone open carrying,,,,,,,but I have seen new signage on office buildings and malls since the legalization of OC,,,,,,,the difference in OK is BIG,,,,,,,their signage DOES NOT carry the weight of law,,,,,,,if asked to leave and I don't comply,,,,,,I can be charged with trespass,,,,,,,,,if the OC crowd can get our signage to be like OK et. al. then I could support OC..........

Just think what the outcome would be,,,,,,,,too many are "assuming" the status quo would remain,,,,,,,,I assure you it would not.......

[gringo pistolero]

Given the state's otherwise pro-gun climate and the fact that many more anti states allow open carry (at least in theory), it makes no sense at all that Texas forbids it.

I'm sure there are many ongoing discussions about this, so my apologies for any duplication.

We don't have open carry or campus carry because the House majority chose Joe Straus as Speaker of the House.
We don't have open carry or campus carry because Rick Perry didn't want them enough to add them to to the call.

When you vote Tuesday, remember why Texas doesn't acknowledge gun rights that other states do.

[txnative1951]

Given the state's otherwise pro-gun climate and the fact that many more anti states allow open carry (at least in theory), it makes no sense at all that Texas forbids it.

I'm sure there are many ongoing discussions about this, so my apologies for any duplication.

Because we are only slowly throwing off the yoke of Yankee Imperialism / Occupation that we were saddled with after the War of Northern Aggression.

[Jason K]

Blaming the lack of OC in TX on the "in-your-face" types is like blaming the lack of gay marriage in TX on Elton John, RuPaul, and that Leslie person in Austin.

There are plenty of decent, polite gun owners who support OC. They're just not acknowledged by the press, the politicians, and the gun rights organizations. Pity....they have a lot to say.

[Jumping Frog]

Given the state's otherwise pro-gun climate and the fact that many more anti states allow open carry (at least in theory), it makes no sense at all that Texas forbids it.

I'm sure there are many ongoing discussions about this, so my apologies for any duplication.

Because we are only slowly throwing off the yoke of Yankee Imperialism / Occupation that we were saddled with after the War of Northern Aggression.

Nice theory, but doesn't match historical facts.

History supports that the gun control laws were first created as a racist means to keep black and brown people unarmed.

How about reading The Racist Roots of Gun Control by Clayton Cramer. Then watch "No Guns for Negroes"

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

From Cramer's article:

The former states of the Confederacy, many of which had recognized the right to carry arms openly before the Civil War, developed a very sudden willingness to qualify that right. One especially absurd example, and one that includes strong evidence of the racist intentions behind gun control laws, is Texas.

In Cockrum v. State (1859), the Texas Supreme Court had recognized that there was a right to carry defensive arms, and that this right was protected under both the Second Amendment, and section 13 of the Texas Bill of Rights. The outer limit of the state’s authority (in this case, attempting to discourage the carrying of Bowie knives), was that it could provide an enhanced penalty for manslaughters committed with Bowie knives.[30] Yet, by 1872, the Texas Supreme Court denied that there was any right to carry any weapon for self-defense under either the state or federal constitutions -- and made no attempt to explain or justify why the Cockrum decision was no longer valid.[31]

What caused the dramatic change? The following excerpt from that same decision -- so offensive that no one would dare make such an argument today -- sheds some light on the racism that apparently caused the sudden perspective change:

The law under consideration has been attacked upon the ground that it was contrary to public policy, and deprived the people of the necessary means of self- defense; that it was an innovation upon the customs and habits of the people, to which they would not peaceably submit … We will not say to what extent the early customs and habits of the people of this state should be respected and accommodated, where they may come in conflict with the ideas of intelligent and well-meaning legislators. A portion of our system of laws, as well as our public morality, is derived from a people the most peculiar perhaps of any other in the history and derivation of its own system. Spain, at different periods of the world, was dominated over by the Carthagenians, the Romans, the Vandals, the Snovi, the Allani, the Visigoths, and Arabs; and to this day there are found in the Spanish codes traces of the laws and customs of each of these nations blended together in a system by no means to be compared with the sound philosophy and pure morality of the common law.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Blaming the lack of OC in TX on the "in-your-face" types is like blaming the lack of gay marriage in TX on Elton John, RuPaul, and that Leslie person in Austin.

There are plenty of decent, polite gun owners who support OC. They're just not acknowledged by the press, the politicians, and the gun rights organizations. Pity....they have a lot to say.

I don't recall anyone arguing that we don't have open-carry because of "in-your-face" tactics or people. We don't have open-carry because SB60 passed in 1995 with a requirement to keep one's handgun concealed. Prior to the passage of SB60, it was unlawful to carry a handgun openly or concealed with few exceptions. "In-your-face" tactics/people had nothing to do with that.

The real reason that Texas law hasn't changed to allow open-carry is because only a very small percentage of voting Texans want to change the law. A lack of general support for any statewide issue makes it hard to pass a related bill that is considered controversial.

"In-your-face" tactics are making it harder to get those in the Texas Legislature to support an open-carry bill. Remember, the Governor, Lt. Governor, AG, etc. can't even file a bill, much less get one passed. Therefore, their support is nice, but it's not outcome determinative. In terms of the Governor's involvement, it's an indication Greg Abbott will not veto an open-carry bill. This presumes any bill that were to pass would not have problematic provisions like amending TPC §30.06. I seriously doubt that would happen because the bill would be killed long before it reached the Governor's desk.

Chas.

[Jason K]

OC is not legal in Texas because the people pushing the hardest for it are a bunch of idiots who don't know how to behave properly in public. They believe in an in your face approach that has proven in the past to be counter productive to their stated goals.
Get these people to crawl back under their rocks and OC just might have a chance.

Charles, this is what I referred to.

[jmra]

OC is not legal in Texas because the people pushing the hardest for it are a bunch of idiots who don't know how to behave properly in public. They believe in an in your face approach that has proven in the past to be counter productive to their stated goals.
Get these people to crawl back under their rocks and OC just might have a chance.

Charles, this is what I referred to.

As Mr. Cotton stated in his previous post, the "in your face" approach is making it harder for legislators to support an OC bill.

IMHO, without that support OC doesn't stand a chance. Unfortunately for those who do support OC, the loudest voice currently is the wrong voice.

Given the fact that gay marriage has absolutely nothing to do with the topic, I'll forgo a response to your apples and oranges comparison.

[Oldgringo]

I support OC, if for no other reason than being insulated from some namby-pamby whimp kid shouting out to his/her namby-pamby whimp, and otherwise wanting mother/parents, "MOM, that fat old guy over there has a {shudder} GUN!"

Strutting about with guns in Duck Dynasty/Ted Nugent costumes is not the way to win the 'hearts and minds' of the general voting populace, IMO.

[Beiruty]

Last session we had a lot of changes for CHL laws.

Let us see, in the next session what is the plan of action for the gun rights camp?
1) Campus carry
2) ????
3) ????

No one is stalking what is next and we should push at least 1 or 2 big issues that do matter and make a difference.

[Jason K]

No one is stalking what is next and we should push at least 1 or 2 big issues that do matter and make a difference.

How about reducing the fee from $140 to $70 or less? It would be a great way to increase the CHL holder numbers. It would also appeal to voters & politicians of the "lower taxes" platform.

[jmra]

No one is stalking what is next and we should push at least 1 or 2 big issues that do matter and make a difference.

How about reducing the fee from $140 to $70 or less? It would be a great way to increase the CHL holder numbers. It would also appeal to voters & politicians of the "lower taxes" platform.

I don't see the fee as that big a deal. It's about $.07 a day the first 5 years and half that afterwards. Not something I would spend a lot of political influence on.

Edited to be nicer.