No CHL! How to avoid problems?

[jbarn]

[*]Unless you are an LEO, you can't legally carry a gun in Texas without a CHL. The exceptions would be:

• Inside your own home;
• between your home and your car;
• inside your car, and
• between your car and your place of business.

I think you meant "handgun", no? And there are other instances outlined in penal code 46.15(b), like while engaged in a lawful hunting or sporting where a handgun is commonly used. Or while traveling...





[*]You can NEVER carry your gun into stores or other people's property without a CHL, unless it is your place of business, and you have the owner's permission to carry in the place of business. "Usually" doesn't cut it. When you're breaking the law, you're.......well......breaking the law. There are very few legitimate reasons for breaking the law. I don't think he needs the owners permission to carry on the premises under his (the OPs) control. If the owner has conveyed control of the premise to him, that is all he needs. Right?





[*]Nobody, not even your employer, can give you permission to break the law and carry a gun "around his location" outdoors. You can only do that inside his business (assuming you are not otherwise disqualified from being in possession of a firearm). You can carry from your car in the parking lot into his place of business, but you can't randomly walk around the parking lot carrying a gun. In penal code 46.02, where the authority to carry on premises under you control comes from, the term premises means real property. That means he can carry outdoors if he could carry indoors. If the parking lot is his premises or his employers premises and he has control of those premises by virtue of his capacity as an employee, he can carry in the parking lot.


You can't park a half-mile away away and carry concealed from your car into the place of business. While I don't want to split hairs on distance, if a half a mile is as close as he could reasonable park and he is legal carrying at work, why would half a mile be too far? How about a quarter mile? Again, not trying to be argumentative, just seeking clarity

I think that is a great post and some good advice. I hope you will not mind if I offer some small suggestions, seen in red above.

Thanks

[FML]

For example having a loaded gun on my person in a holster while outside of my vehicle pumping gas.

If the gas station has a convenience store that sells beer that may be a felony. The 46.02 definition of premises is not the same as 46.035 and UCW "is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages."

[The Annoyed Man]

[*]Unless you are an LEO, you can't legally carry a gun in Texas without a CHL. The exceptions would be:

• Inside your own home;
• between your home and your car;
• inside your car, and
• between your car and your place of business.

I think you meant "handgun", no? And there are other instances outlined in penal code 46.15(b), like while engaged in a lawful hunting or sporting where a handgun is commonly used. Or while traveling... Yes, I meant "handgun". I assumed that people would have understood that's what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.





[*]You can NEVER carry your gun into stores or other people's property without a CHL, unless it is your place of business, and you have the owner's permission to carry in the place of business. "Usually" doesn't cut it. When you're breaking the law, you're.......well......breaking the law. There are very few legitimate reasons for breaking the law. I don't think he needs the owners permission to carry on the premises under his (the OPs) control. If the owner has conveyed control of the premise to him, that is all he needs. Right? Well, that would go to my comments elsewhere in the same post about owner permission. But the part I was specifically commenting about in this part of my post was to his statement that: "I usually don't carry my gun into stores or onto peoples property without there consent but there has been a few times that I wasn't sure if I was breaking the law or not." His use of the word "usually" implies that he sometimes does carry his gun into stores or onto peoples' property without their consent. That was what I was specifically addressing when I made the statement at the beginning of this section.





[*]Nobody, not even your employer, can give you permission to break the law and carry a gun "around his location" outdoors. You can only do that inside his business (assuming you are not otherwise disqualified from being in possession of a firearm). You can carry from your car in the parking lot into his place of business, but you can't randomly walk around the parking lot carrying a gun. In penal code 46.02, where the authority to carry on premises under you control comes from, the term premises means real property. That means he can carry outdoors if he could carry indoors. If the parking lot is his premises or his employers premises and he has control of those premises by virtue of his capacity as an employee, he can carry in the parking lot. You're correct, but he didn't specify "premises". He said "Other than that I have consent to carry my weapon to my business location inside and around." What does "around" mean? Does it mean "in the back lot"? Does it mean "down the block at the donut shop"? "The parking lot?" And then there is the question which I really don't know the answer to, but which applies here: can a business owner give effective control of the premises, and hence permission to carry, to an employee who is not on the clock? For instance, the work day is over and we're all just hanging out having tea and crumpets, and we're off the clock....can the owner give permission to carry on the premises when our activities are not work-related? So this is a gray area, at least in my mind, and if the OP just went and got his CHL, then all of this becomes moot.


You can't park a half-mile away away and carry concealed from your car into the place of business. While I don't want to split hairs on distance, if a half a mile is as close as he could reasonable park and he is legal carrying at work, why would half a mile be too far? How about a quarter mile? Again, not trying to be argumentative, just seeking clarity I think that's one of those "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it" kinds of answers. It's a question of who controls the property between where the OP parks, and the business entrance. If all of that 1/2 mile of land between where the car is parked and the door of the business belonged to the business owner, then I guess it would be OK. But the business owner cannot give the OP permission to carry concealed without a license to walk across land that is not under the owner's control, and I'm willing to bet that pretty much any cop would agree with me. If it were legal for the business owner to give an unlicensed person person permission to carry from a parking lot a half-mile away from the business, across land not owned/controlled by the business owner, then what is to stop the business owner to give permission to his employee to carry concealed while walking the 5 miles from his house to the office? Of course, he can't, and neither can he give the employee permission to carry a concealed firearm from his car just two blocks away......unless that distance AND the sidewalks are all on property under the owner's control. I'm pretty sure that law enforcement would agree.

I think that is a great post and some good advice. I hope you will not mind if I offer some small suggestions, seen in red above. I don't mind at all. Follow up comments in blue.

Thanks

[FML]

I don''t think MPA covers people walking to work.

[The Annoyed Man]

I don''t think MPA covers people walking to work.

Exactly.

[puma guy]

Brave souls all! I wondered who was going to tackle this one BTW per Texas law felons can possess a firearm in their home for protection five years after release of fully served sentence or the completion of parole/probation. Federal law, however, does prohibit the possession of a firearm by a felon.,

[Stripes Dude]

I personally have a problem with your juvenile "aggravated assault" item as well as your several conflicts with LEO's since then. At age 34 and 7 years since last problem...well...IMO you have a problem that has not completely gone away despite what the Texas CHL law says...

Good thing then that TX doesn't go off of "personal" opinions as part of their criteria.

Repeat behavior may raise a red flag with the DPS folks, but who are we to judge?

[Stripes Dude]

I don''t think MPA covers people walking to work.

Regardless of MPA, you can carry between house/car, and the burden of proof would be on prosecution to prove he wasn't walking from house to car or vice versa. Does this route have to be a straight line?

[apostate]

Regardless of MPA, you can carry between house/car

Until MPA it wasn't legal for someone to carry a handgun to their car parked off their property nor was it legal for them to carry a handgun in their car. (By carry I mean "carries on or about his or her person" without some exception like LEO or CHL.)

[jbarn]

I don''t think MPA covers people walking to work.

Of course not. But if you can carry at work under 46.02, then there has to be an allowance to get the handgun from car to work.

[03Lightningrocks]

One post from this guy talking like he lives a life of petty crime, temper control issues and even total disrespect for laws and law enforcement. Then poof... disappears like the wind and we keep the thread going as if these troll threads are to be taken seriously.

[anygunanywhere]

One post from this guy talking like he lives a life of petty crime, temper control issues and even total disrespect for laws and law enforcement. Then poof... disappears like the wind and we keep the thread going as if these troll threads are to be taken seriously.

Think it will make three pages?

AGAW

[03Lightningrocks]

One post from this guy talking like he lives a life of petty crime, temper control issues and even total disrespect for laws and law enforcement. Then poof... disappears like the wind and we keep the thread going as if these troll threads are to be taken seriously.

Think it will make three pages?

AGAW

My bet is that it makes five or six. At last count I think I read at least five different disputes.

[bayouhazard]

I don''t think MPA covers people walking to work.

Of course not. But if you can carry at work under 46.02, then there has to be an allowance to get the handgun from car to work.

Sure there is. Unloaded and in a locked case works. Same as it did ten years ago.

Or get a CHL.

[jbarn]

I don''t think MPA covers people walking to work.

Of course not. But if you can carry at work under 46.02, then there has to be an allowance to get the handgun from car to work.

Sure there is. Unloaded and in a locked case works. Same as it did ten years ago.

Or get a CHL.

Or carry under MPA. For example, the employees who work at a gun range in Ft Worth can carry at work under PC 46.02 without a CHL. Under the MPA portion of 46.02 they can carry in their vehicles without a CHL. When they park in the lot that is two businesses away and walk to the range on the right of way, the carry of the handgun to and from the car is lawful under 46.02, IMO.