Disparity of force (Motorcycle Gang Incident in New York)

[gemini]

Im not condoning that MC riders are all bad but my experience is that it MUCH more common to see MC drivers acting like buffoons than cars, again on a percentage basis.

Your just not observing well than.. (EDIT: Or I could just never have been in the same area(s) you traverse, and so my observations are just very different then yours)
Likely conditioned to not even see the all too common idiocy of a 4 wheeled vehicle driver... Ask a cop or a over the road truck driver

I drawing a line between being an idiot and driving badly and intentionally driving illegally

There are tons of idiots on 2 wheels and 4 wheels
Im just saying that on a percentage basis I see a much higher percentage of 2 wheel drivers intentionally willfully ignoring laws, lanes, lights and limits ....

Again not making excuses for 4 wheel idiots ...

I believe you have to be an idiot to drive badly or drive illegally. On 2 wheels or 4.
Driving badly = not paying attention or lack of basic skills and courtesy. Wreck and/or hurt others.
Driving illegally (bike) = soon to mostly hurt yourself or you and a passenger.

I also believe that if you were to ride a bike for even a short period of time your
perception and perspective would change dramatically.

I believe riding makes me a better driver (car/truck). Why? Because when riding you are
ALWAYS looking to avoid any situation where you could be injured or killed. Like a car almost
missing it's exit and crossing 3 or 4 lanes of traffic to exit. Or, a car entering a freeway and
immediately crossing 3 or more lanes of traffic. Vehicles running red lights at intersections
because they're talking on the phone. Cars crossing a double yellow line on a 2 lane road
and coming head on at you. By the way, ALL of the above scenarios happened on a ride just this afternoon.
My experiences lead me to think that there is a higher percentage of unqualified drivers
behind the wheel than hanging onto handle bars. I guess it just depends on where you're sitting when
on the road.

[scud runner]

I drawing a line between being an idiot and driving badly and intentionally driving illegally

In the video you see the instigator looks as he intentionally backs into the suv on the highway.

[Moby]

If you are going to start shooting in that situation, you better have a pile of those 7 round magazines.

Glock 30, 11 rounds with two mags back up. 31 rounds total.

This is what happens in anti gun states.
I'm glad the family man only got bruises and cuts.

It's a shame the biker is paralyzed for life.
The result of childish behavior.

Why do people act so differently on the highway?

[talltex]

This is such a long thread now, so I don't know if this has been mentioned yet...

Apparently there were several off-duty NYPD officers among the mob of bikers, and not a single one intervened to stop this from happening.

One of them may have been undercover, and feared exposing himself. I don't know enough about his situation to challenge his decision, but the others' inaction (if they were simply off-duty, and not undercover) is absolutely unforgivable.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ttack.html

Another interesting question is: were any of the off duty officers participating in the rampant and repetitive violations of the traffic laws that are detailed in the videos? Since they were present at the beat down, they must have been part of the group that chased down the SUV.
If they were on official undercover business with the gang and had to go along with the gang to maintain their relationship with it, that's one thing. If they are voluntary members of the gang and pulled all of those traffic violation stunts, that is quite another.

They have now suspended the undercover which I find interesting because he didn't come forward immediately.

http://www.policeone.com/officer-miscon ... ike-rally/

The article stated that any undercover officer that observes a crime committed while undercover is required to report it immediately...he waited 4 days. Yesterday I watched an interview with one of the "civilians" that stepped in to stop the beating, and is seen in the video wearing a dark sportcoat standing between the bikers and Mr. Lien who is laying on the ground. He said that one of the bikers had both hands on the wife and was trying to pull her out of the vehicle and some women bystanders were yelling "no...not the woman...leave her alone...not her or the baby". He said there was not doubt his intention was harm her. He also said the ones that pulled Lien out were hitting him repeatedly with their helmets on his body and head after they had him down on the pavement. If there were any officers present, that stood by and did nothing to try and stop it, they need to be fired. I understand they have "no legal duty to protect", but they do not need to be wearing a badge. Their mere presence, riding with a stunt mob intentionally violating numerous traffice laws, is a whole other issue to be looked at.

[Keith B]

Well, this article goes to show the mentality and type of person they were dealing with. The image in the article shows the biker who broke the window and dragged the driver out and beat him nearly to death making obscene gestures court Sunday.
http://nypost.com/2013/10/06/cops-bust- ... ed-family/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Per the article he has a rap sheet a mile long, but was let out of a prision sentence by a Judge earlier this year.

Chance — who has 21 prior arrests for charges ranging from drugs to robbery to gun possession — was ordered held in lieu $100,000 bond or $75,000 cash.

This menance to socitiy shouldn't have even been on the street.

[mojo84]

I'm just thankful their mayor is most concerned with people getting fat by drinking too much soda.

[baldeagle]

This is what's wrong with our justice system.

Chance was busted and hit with gun and drug raps and faced more than 25 years’ prison.

But Brooklyn prosecutors dropped the gun rap when Chance was indicted. A source said the charge was weakened by the fact that Chance — who allegedly admitted the pistol was his — had not been the target of the search for the gun.

Any time you kid yourself or you hear someone else kidding themselves that the justice system is tough on gun crime, point them to stories like this. They are not. They simply want to disarm law abiding citizens. They have no interest in enforcing gun laws against known criminals. New York has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation. Look at how zealously they enforce them against criminals.

[VMI77]

This is what's wrong with our justice system.

Chance was busted and hit with gun and drug raps and faced more than 25 years’ prison.

But Brooklyn prosecutors dropped the gun rap when Chance was indicted. A source said the charge was weakened by the fact that Chance — who allegedly admitted the pistol was his — had not been the target of the search for the gun.

Any time you kid yourself or you hear someone else kidding themselves that the justice system is tough on gun crime, point them to stories like this. They are not. They simply want to disarm law abiding citizens. They have no interest in enforcing gun laws against known criminals. New York has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation. Look at how zealously they enforce them against criminals.

Bad example....they're very tough on gun "crime," but not on criminals...just the law abiding. If they had found the gun in the possession of some young woman who had been raped and got a gun for protection, she'd be spending at least 5 years in prison.

[gthaustex]

This is what's wrong with our justice system.

Chance was busted and hit with gun and drug raps and faced more than 25 years’ prison.

But Brooklyn prosecutors dropped the gun rap when Chance was indicted. A source said the charge was weakened by the fact that Chance — who allegedly admitted the pistol was his — had not been the target of the search for the gun.

Any time you kid yourself or you hear someone else kidding themselves that the justice system is tough on gun crime, point them to stories like this. They are not. They simply want to disarm law abiding citizens. They have no interest in enforcing gun laws against known criminals. New York has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation. Look at how zealously they enforce them against criminals.

Bad example....they're very tough on gun "crime," but not on criminals...just the law abiding. If they had found the gun in the possession of some young woman who had been raped and got a gun for protection, she'd be spending at least 5 years in prison.

It seems most of the stories I hear about are people who are not troublemakers getting slammed for trying to protect themselves. Yes, they are breaking the laws as written. However, the disparity of enforcement is what troubles me.

[Tic Tac]

Maybe NYPD will hire Chance and he can hang out with his buddies at work.

[kjolly]

A great reason for being thankful that we live in Texas and have a CHL.
would the MC be as quick to jump if there was a possibility that the RR was armed?

[RoyGBiv]

A great reason for being thankful that we live in Texas and have a CHL.
would the MC be as quick to jump if there was a possibility that the RR was armed?

If that happened in TX, how many bikers would be shooting back?

[Keith B]

A great reason for being thankful that we live in Texas and have a CHL.
would the MC be as quick to jump if there was a possibility that the RR was armed?

If that happened in TX, how many bikers would be shooting back?

In this case, the guy that broke the window and drug the guy out of the car had previously been convicrted of illegal gun possesion, so who wants to bet he and some of the others were armed anyway.

[mojo84]

The event may not have happened at all if there was a likely chance the man in the SUV was armed. I also suspect there were plenty of guns among the bikers. Each side having guns tends to precipitate a "mutual respect" of sorts.

[SewTexas]

The event may not have happened at all if there was a likely chance the man in the SUV was armed. I also suspect there were plenty of guns among the bikers. Each side having guns tends to precipitate a "mutual respect" of sorts.

not so sure about that, remember the incident in ...Dallas?... when they surrounded the guy on the bike, then left, then the guy was pulled over and "arrested" basically because he had a camera the cop wanted. that guy could have been armed and it could have gone wrong there too, granted not as wrong as SUV wrong, but still....