Can a Sunday School Teacher Carry?

[jmra]

Thanks for the advice. We did go through the requirements and restrictions line-by-line, so my interpretation is that I was given oral notice. Time to back out...

So, now that we have established that oral notice was given, does that notice only apply if you are working as a volunteer or do you now believe you can not carry at church at all?
I would think that it only applies if you are serving in that role, but would be interested to hear what others think.

ETA: Is there a police/security presence covering this area of the building? If not, given this policy, my child would not be attending Sunday School at that Church.

[RottenApple]

Thanks for the advice. We did go through the requirements and restrictions line-by-line, so my interpretation is that I was given oral notice. Time to back out...

So, now that we have established that oral notice was given, does that notice only apply if you are working as a volunteer or do you now believe you can not carry at church at all?
I would think that it only applies if you are serving in that role, but would be interested to hear what others think.

ETA: Is there a police/security presence covering this area of the building? If not, given this policy, my child would not be attending Sunday School at that Church.

Based on what the OP has said thus far, the conversation was in terms of the volunteer "employment" requirements. So he can't carry at work. But if he's not working.... Carry away.

As for your edit, this might (stress MIGHT) be one of the few times someone should point out to the leadership that 1) non-"employees" can still carry if they have a CHL and 2) BG's don't care about their rules.

[The Annoyed Man]

My wife and daughter in law teach/care for the 1-2 yr olds during our first service. They both pack. Her ministry "boss" packs. The little ones are precious and are not developed enough or equipped to protect themselves. They're too young to even think about diving under a desk, or grabbing ahold of the rope in line and following the teacher out. They're babies. They are protected. End of story.

[MikeStone]

My interpretation is that I could only not carry when serving in that volunteer capacity. Just attending I'm not bound by the restrictions of the volunteer agreement. Time for a chat with the administrators.

[MeMelYup]

Figure out the pro's n con's. present them to your preacher or whomever. Then let your conscience be your guide.

[troglodyte]

Thanks for the advice. We did go through the requirements and restrictions line-by-line, so my interpretation is that I was given oral notice. Time to back out...

I'd check with the person(s) who went over the requirements with you. Could be it is just a copy of someone else's policy they got off the internet and changed a little to fit your congregation. It's been done many times. Ask them if this also includes CHLs. If it does, politely state that you are withdrawing from volunteering. Personally, I'd also state why and do the same to the congregation leadership. If they continued to balk I would be looking for a new church home. How far you wish to take it is up to you.

[C-dub]

Thanks for the advice. We did go through the requirements and restrictions line-by-line, so my interpretation is that I was given oral notice. Time to back out...

I'm a little confused on something here. Going through something "line-by-line" doesn't sound like oral notice. That sounds like you were reading something, which is not oral notice.

[ClarkLZeuss]

Section 42.002, Human Resources Code
(7) "Day-care center" means a child-care facility that provides care for more than 12 children under 14 years of age for
less than 24 hours a day.
:

Off-topic: well, that means my kid's Mother's Day Out program is off-limits. Dang.

[C-dub]

Thanks for the advice. We did go through the requirements and restrictions line-by-line, so my interpretation is that I was given oral notice. Time to back out...

I'm a little confused on something here. Going through something "line-by-line" doesn't sound like oral notice. That sounds like you were reading something, which is not oral notice.

I read this differently this morning and think I understand what you meant. Someone read the policy out loud to you line-by-line, correct? That makes sense now why you say you were given oral notice.

[MikeStone]

Thanks for the advice. We did go through the requirements and restrictions line-by-line, so my interpretation is that I was given oral notice. Time to back out...

I'm a little confused on something here. Going through something "line-by-line" doesn't sound like oral notice. That sounds like you were reading something, which is not oral notice.

I read this differently this morning and think I understand what you meant. Someone read the policy out loud to you line-by-line, correct? That makes sense now why you say you were given oral notice.

Yes, the policy was read line-by-line...no specific focus on the firearm piece. I still take that as oral notice although in a court I could argue against that.

On another note...our church is struggling for teachers and I feel pulled to serve. I'm gonna teach and keep my firearm close at hand anyway. (Secure of course...) The situation is ambiguous enough where I can argue against the statutory nature of 30.06. I figure if I need to use it then it was for a good reason.

[RPBrown]

The law does not state whether verbal means being read out loud or just told. I would say even if read, it was a verbal rule given and as such puts it legally off limits.

[kjolly]

I feel signing the document is an action of your word as a person. Regardless of legality they clearly have the intent that you are not to carry. Need to respect their wishes beyond the letter of the law. That said maybe you might resign from the position or as stated find another church.

[jmra]

I feel signing the document is an action of your word as a person. Regardless of legality they clearly have the intent that you are not to carry. Need to respect their wishes beyond the letter of the law. That said maybe you might resign from the position or as stated find another church.

If he had not been give oral notice and simply signed the document then I would disagree. As far as I'm concerned that would be no different than a gun buster sign on a door to a business.
Although his has received legal oral notice, he still doesn't actually know how the church feels (their intent) toward CHL carry. He won't know unless he asks.

[AlaskanInTexas]

I feel signing the document is an action of your word as a person. Regardless of legality they clearly have the intent that you are not to carry. Need to respect their wishes beyond the letter of the law. That said maybe you might resign from the position or as stated find another church.

If he had not been give oral notice and simply signed the document then I would disagree. As far as I'm concerned that would be no different than a gun buster sign on a door to a business.
Although his has received legal oral notice, he still doesn't actually know how the church feels (their intent) toward CHL carry. He won't know unless he asks.

Irrespective of whether it is legal, if he signed a document saying he won't carry a gun into church and then proceeds to carry a gun into church, he has broken his word. As for the idea of "getting another church" - I will go to church where God directs me; the church's policy on guns does not enter into that equation.

[jmra]

I feel signing the document is an action of your word as a person. Regardless of legality they clearly have the intent that you are not to carry. Need to respect their wishes beyond the letter of the law. That said maybe you might resign from the position or as stated find another church.

If he had not been give oral notice and simply signed the document then I would disagree. As far as I'm concerned that would be no different than a gun buster sign on a door to a business.
Although his has received legal oral notice, he still doesn't actually know how the church feels (their intent) toward CHL carry. He won't know unless he asks.

Irrespective of whether it is legal, if he signed a document saying he won't carry a gun into church and then proceeds to carry a gun into church, he has broken his word. As for the idea of "getting another church" - I will go to church where God directs me; the church's policy on guns does not enter into that equation.

He didn't sign a document saying he wouldn't carry a gun. The document stated a policy that firearms are not allowed. But I know many churches who have that same policy that are perfectly fine with a CHL carrying. What I am saying is you have no way of knowing their intent toward CHL until you ask. I can promise you that the policy in question would not be applied toward an off duty officer. If anyone in leadership knows anything about CHL it wouldn't apply there either.
If you apply your logic to the big picture, there aren't many places you could carry because a gun buster sign would show "intent".
There are two different elements to this debate:
1. Legal carry
2. Your opinion of "the right thing" to do.

The OP asked if he could carry. Legally, had the policy not been read out loud, he could indeed carry. From a moral standpoint, I would not carry without verifying leaderships attitude toward CHL and how the leadership does/does not apply this policy to CHL.
My leadership is very aware that I carry. In fact one of the assistant pastors last Sunday went out of his way to tell me how much he appreciated me carrying at church and how much safer the few who knew feel knowing that I am there.