Carry Ammo

[anomie]

I'm not sure I'd be worried as much about legal consequences as much as effectiveness. In whatever edition I happen to have of "The Concealed Handgun Manual" there was a story related where a guy had frangible ammo, hit his target every time he pulled the trigger (his target, fortunately, missed every shot) - and I got the distinct impression from the book that if he'd been carrying JHP instead the incident would have likely been over a lot sooner.

I'd want to see data for claims that a frangible ammo was as effective as JHP before I'd think about carrying it. Were they just statements or did the web sites you're referencing have data? (I'm not directing any of that at you, I'm just curious.)

[Grillmark55]

I'd want to see data for claims that a frangible ammo was as effective as JHP before I'd think about carrying it. Were they just statements or did the web sites you're referencing have data? (I'm not directing any of that at you, I'm just curious.)

No data that I found, just statements by whomever was doing the reviews (I don't even remember exactly where I saw them. Midway USA and GunsAmerica maybe? I looked at 5 or 6 places) At any rate, I sure wouldn't stake my life, or the lives of my loved ones, on something that I wasn't 100% sure was better than the tried-and-true defense ammo that I now use (Remington Golden Sabre in my 45 and Hornady Critical Duty in my 9mm).

[bdickens]

Interesting that this subject came up today. A Facebook friend has a new business and just sent out an ad for Liberty 9mm +P 50 Grain HP. I had to ask him "50 grain? Is that a typo?"
Did a little more research - this is a lead free frangible round. Muzzle velocity 2000 fps @ 444 ft lbs, with an effective range of 25 meters. The price for a box of 20 was $24.99 so it is competitive with other 9mm personal defense. Some other web sites said that it has the stopping power of other critical defense ammo.
I kind of wonder what possible legal problems would arise from using frangible ammo in a self defense situation.

Which law enforcement agencies issue frangible rounds to their officers for carry?

[Cedar Park Dad]

Has 9mm availability eased up at all?

I haven't seen hollow points in a brick and mortar store in a long, long time. I am currently carrying 147 grain Federal Premium Hydra-Shok that I bought a couple 20 round boxes of before the ammo shortage and before I was really thinking about what ammo I would want to carry.

I want to get new ammo but have felt sort of stuck given the ammo shortage. If I could lay my hands on a couple 20 round boxes of 124g speer gold dot +P "short barrel" (I carry a G26) I'd carry that, although I figure the Hydra-Shok is "good enough" - but I've never really known too much about ammo.

http://www.ammunitiondepot.com/CCI-Spee ... 3617-a.htm

50 count for $31 and change...

Ditto on the thanks. Thats a good price And Availabilty. Its making me giddy almost like the good old days.

[bdickens]

Quite frankly, way too much time and energy get wasted on concerns over which ammo to carry.


With the technology of computer aided design and simulation available today, any modern hollow point bullet design in any of the common defensive cartridges from 9mm on up, loaded to industry standards, will likely do the job.

In the rare instances of the extremely determined / drugged up or whatever attacker who takes 33 rounds of 9mm center mass before finally giving up the attack by dying from blood loss, neither a different bullet nor different caliber would have made much of a difference.

[Pecos]

[mgood]

Quite frankly, way too much time and energy get wasted on concerns over which ammo to carry.


With the technology of computer aided design and simulation available today, any modern hollow point bullet design in any of the common defensive cartridges from 9mm on up, loaded to industry standards, will likely do the job.

In the rare instances of the extremely determined / drugged up or whatever attacker who takes 33 rounds of 9mm center mass before finally giving up the attack by dying from blood loss, neither a different bullet nor different caliber would have made much of a difference.

True.
And shot placement is far more important than who has the biggest bullet.
So what style of bullet and how much it expands and how reliably it expands has got to be waaaaay down the list of priorities.
Still, I like to have every advantage I can get, but it's probably not something to stress out over.

[anomie]

My thought at this point is really "just go with something that a sufficient number of LE agencies have authorized and make sure it runs in your gun". Not because I'm a wannabe cop or anything like that, but just because if enough people are using it then I feel more comfortable, and LE have an interest in making sure they use good ammo (and LE are people, too ). I figure more ammo has been run through Glocks by cops than I'd ever be able to personally shoot in my lifetime.

That's pretty much why I want 124 grain +P gold dots - because when I went google searching what LE agencies authorize in 9mm it kept coming up. I think back when I bought the Hydra-Shok, Hydra-Shok kept coming up, although I don't remember if I chose on the basis of weight or if it was just 'the store I went to had some 147 grain hydra-shok on the shelf'.

The reason I want *new* ammo is because what I have, I've had for a while. I had some FMJ that was the same age and it all went bang when I took it to the range a couple of weeks ago, so I figure the JHP I have will still go bang, too, but newer ammo can't hurt.

So, I basically agree with the 'too much time and energy' comment. On the other hand, I like that there are people doing that, because it benefits the rest of us (both by advancement in ammo design, etc, and not having to test everything individually).

[Dirthawking]

There are a ton of videos on youtube about that liberty ultra defense (halo) ammo. some good, some bad. Some very bad!

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[Dirthawking]

A good video for information: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[docbrazos]

I too like to change out carry ammo every once in a while, But, I solve the problem by Not loading a full magazine with PD ammo. I probably have as much PD ammo as anyone but I generally have half the magazine with some type of hardball in my auto's.
Just a comment on Ammo storage. Recently competed in a SASS match with 3 year old Lead Reloaded Ammo that had been stored outside but kept dry for the last 3 years, stored only in cardboard boxes. 100% went bang as expected!

[Excaliber]

Quite frankly, way too much time and energy get wasted on concerns over which ammo to carry.


With the technology of computer aided design and simulation available today, any modern hollow point bullet design in any of the common defensive cartridges from 9mm on up, loaded to industry standards, will likely do the job.

In the rare instances of the extremely determined / drugged up or whatever attacker who takes 33 rounds of 9mm center mass before finally giving up the attack by dying from blood loss, neither a different bullet nor different caliber would have made much of a difference.

[texanjoker]

I use federal LE rounds which are pretty much Federal hydrashocks.... they work.

[JSThane]

In .40, it's what I'm issued, a mixture of Federal HST 155 and 180 grain, and a few old Winchester Ranger SXT 155 still left over (but I'm almost run dry on those).

In .45, I generally just carry the basic WWB .45 230g HP from Wal Mart. The round's big and heavy enough that I worry less about expansion, and far more about shot placement.

Interesting that this subject came up today. A Facebook friend has a new business and just sent out an ad for Liberty 9mm +P 50 Grain HP. I had to ask him "50 grain? Is that a typo?"
Did a little more research - this is a lead free frangible round. Muzzle velocity 2000 fps @ 444 ft lbs, with an effective range of 25 meters. The price for a box of 20 was $24.99 so it is competitive with other 9mm personal defense. Some other web sites said that it has the stopping power of other critical defense ammo.
I kind of wonder what possible legal problems would arise from using frangible ammo in a self defense situation.

Which law enforcement agencies issue frangible rounds to their officers for carry?

I would pass on the frangibles. If a 12 gauge load of birdshot at across-the-room distances won't work reliably, I wouldn't trust the frangibles. The 12 gauge holds a LOT more lead, and that close, will still be held together in the shot cup, making it almost a de-facto 12 gauge frangible slug. Yeah, that'll tear up the surface horribly, and make a big, nasty - and probably shallow - wound. If a load won't penetrate drywall, or a 2x4 wall stud, then it won't penetrate a head or a chest reliably, or break a bone, all of which are much better methods of stopping an attack than giving them a nasty, bloody lead rash. It's my understanding that even the Air Marshals have moved away from frangibles, and use a plain jacketed-lead hollowpoint too. I don't know of ANY LE agencies that issue frangibles.

Spend the $$ on more, and cheaper, ammo instead of the adver-hyped wunder frangibles, and use it to practice with. It'll serve far, far better.

[texanjoker]

In .40, it's what I'm issued, a mixture of Federal HST 155 and 180 grain, and a few old Winchester Ranger SXT 155 still left over (but I'm almost run dry on those).

In .45, I generally just carry the basic WWB .45 230g HP from Wal Mart. The round's big and heavy enough that I worry less about expansion, and far more about shot placement.

Interesting that this subject came up today. A Facebook friend has a new business and just sent out an ad for Liberty 9mm +P 50 Grain HP. I had to ask him "50 grain? Is that a typo?"
Did a little more research - this is a lead free frangible round. Muzzle velocity 2000 fps @ 444 ft lbs, with an effective range of 25 meters. The price for a box of 20 was $24.99 so it is competitive with other 9mm personal defense. Some other web sites said that it has the stopping power of other critical defense ammo.
I kind of wonder what possible legal problems would arise from using frangible ammo in a self defense situation.

Which law enforcement agencies issue frangible rounds to their officers for carry?

Yup...00 buck works for me. I now prefer the Federal LE low recoil rounds.
I would pass on the frangibles. If a 12 gauge load of birdshot at across-the-room distances won't work reliably, I wouldn't trust the frangibles. The 12 gauge holds a LOT more lead, and that close, will still be held together in the shot cup, making it almost a de-facto 12 gauge frangible slug. Yeah, that'll tear up the surface horribly, and make a big, nasty - and probably shallow - wound. If a load won't penetrate drywall, or a 2x4 wall stud, then it won't penetrate a head or a chest reliably, or break a bone, all of which are much better methods of stopping an attack than giving them a nasty, bloody lead rash. It's my understanding that even the Air Marshals have moved away from frangibles, and use a plain jacketed-lead hollowpoint too. I don't know of ANY LE agencies that issue frangibles.

Spend the $$ on more, and cheaper, ammo instead of the adver-hyped wunder frangibles, and use it to practice with. It'll serve far, far better.