e-mail from student about road raging motorcyclist

[RX8er]

However, the driver did not have to stop (especially the way he did).

Maybe I missed it. How do we know the driver did or didn't stop in a reasonable manner? Do we know how close the biker was? It really doesn't matter though because I learned about the 2 second follow rule. If the biker was following the 2 second rule, I don't care how fast the car stopped, the bike would have had plenty of time to avoid a rear-end collision.

[alvins]

what makes no sence to me is. You are being followed and you want to stop them from chasing you down. SO they stop in the middle of the road?When your being followed you DO NOT stop for any reason other then when you have to.why would you stop in the middle of the road if your in fear of your life so they can walk up to your car? nothing about this makes sense in this post.

[SlowDave]

It's funny, I never have a problem seeing the guys riding the cruisers going the speed limit. But is it my fault that I don't see the guy on the sports bike doing 120+ splitting lanes and cutting off cars until after I hear the shrill sound of his engine passing within inches of the side of my truck even though I'm in my lane?
2 things:
1. I rode cruisers all over the south. Never had an issue with other drivers and never laid a bike down.
2. I've never met a sports bike owner that didn't brag about how fast he could get from one point to another.

Not sure if I meet your moral standard of cruisers are above sport bikers--I ride a sport tourer. The guy who didn't seem me riding at a very reasonable speed just ran the red light and t-boned me as I was going through the intersection. I know this from the accident report. I don't remember anything from that morning after landing on my head (thanks to my helmet, I'm here to type this).

I have had single vehicle crashes, once in the rain, and once at night when I missed a sign warning of a sharp curve coming. I am not a perfect driver/rider. I often drive 5-10 mph above the speed limit. I DON'T drive 120 mph through town or split lanes.

Lots of things to realize here:
1. As a motorcyclist, you are not as visible to people looking for a car and will suffer a much higher rate of people pulling out in front of you, turning left in front of you, and just moving into your lane while you're in it. Some are on accident, some are on purpose. It doesn't matter. Let it go. If you go after them, their primary weapon is a 4000 lb vehicle and your primary weapon is your leg. (It's likely all over before you get to your gun.) The motorcyclist loses 99.99% of the time. And IF you somehow won, just what exactly would you win??? Again, let it go.

2. If you cut me off and give me an apology wave after the fact, I appreciate it, but don't expect it.

3. If you get a driver (car or bike) who is irritated, generally the best reaction is to just ignore them and drive smoothly and slowly. The guy/gal is typically irritated, and worst case is usually a few nice gestures to let you know you're #1 and then he zooms on off.

4. I never expect more room. (That's hilarious actually.) I expect to get cut off and for people to attempt to run over me. Usually, that turns out to be an accurate expectation. I would love it if people would NOT try to run over me, but a lot of people are just not really paying attention and are not going to start tomorrow no matter how nicely or threateningly I ask them to.

5. Be careful out there!

[Dadtodabone]

The last time I operated a motorcycle, I was on my brand new, root beer brown with orange pinstripes KZ900. The last time I saw my brand new, root beer brown with orange pinstripes KZ900 was as I slid down AZ 260 and my brand new, root beer brown with orange pinstripes KZ900 became airborne after sliding of the edge of the Mogollon Rim.
No cell phone, no make up, no burrito, no kids yelling or crying, no radio to adjust, no inattention. It was Bambi, his mother, a few of his cousins and for all I know Thumper and Flower were in the mix, standing in the middle of the freaking highway just beyond the apex of a curve in the road.
I have a picture of my brand new, root beer brown with orange pinstripes KZ900 taken just an hour before we parted ways. It was taken by my FIL as my wife (did I mention that she was with me?) and I departed the Swiss Village Lodge in Payson AZ on a scenic tour of Zane Grey country.
The picture of my brand new, root beer brown with orange pinstripes KZ900 is pretty worn and faded now. I've carried it in my pocket every Deer Hunting Season since 1977 in 6 states, 3 countries, 2 continents.
My wife says I am obsessed, that my behavior as I dance in the light of my campfire, the warm blood running down my chin and onto my chest as I savor the rich taste of Bambi's liver, is borderline crazy. What does she know? Did she ever own a brand new, root beer brown with orange pinstripes KZ900? No!

My brother from another mother!

high praise, thanx.

[Excalibur]

Also, remember that I may have initiated the encounter when I originally cut you off. However, when you catch up with me a mile down the road, I have obviously "abandoned the encounter".

But when you intentionally brake slam, and create a second assault.....

I'm not disagreeing with all of what you said. However, the driver did not have to stop (especially the way he did). For all we know the motorcycle just happened to be going the same way.

I wonder if the driver would have acted the same way had he not been armed. Unfortunately some people seem to look for encounters (or don't try to avoid them) just because they are carrying.

I also wonder if they would have acted the same way if the other guy was driving a F350 instead of a motorcycle.

[Dragonfighter]

More than likely "Ron" cut the biker off, drifted into his lane, changed lanes without checking
his rear view mirrors, or was texting/talking on phone and driving erratically. I see it all the time.
As others have stated, there's two sides to every story. From what's been presented, I believe "Ron"
was a distracted driver not aware of his environment and made a mistake. I believe the biker had a
legitimate gripe but took it too far.
In my younger days, I too would have been yelling and beating on the window. (ah, foolish youth).
These days I will pull up next to a car, motion for them to roll down the window, and fairly calmly
state, "If you hit me, I won't be able to go home to my wife and kids". Usually the response is "sorry".
When it's not, I let it go. Ride safe.

em mine

And how, may I ask do you come up with that conclusion. Yes we have ONE side of the story, but then that is ALL that is in evidence. Anything else we express is pure speculation and certainly nothing we can say with any degree of certainty or conclude that X is "more than likely".

[carrydave]

I believe the smart thing to do is to call the police right away if a biker is doing what the OP said.

I would also head straight for IHOP (theres sure to be a cop there).

The banging on the window is bad, and I think that deadly force is justified, espeically when he tried to open the door.

However If it were me, I would be concerned about the biker having a gun, and I'm not one to start a gunfight.

Thing is though, I have the right to be on the road, or at the mall, or at the grocer. Hooligans DO NOT have the right to run me off. I can stand my ground.

[carrydave]

I believe the smart thing to do is to call the police right away if a biker is doing what the OP said.

I would also head straight for IHOP (theres sure to be a cop there).

The banging on the window is bad, and I think that deadly force is justified, espeically when he tried to open the door.

However If it were me, I would be concerned about the biker having a gun, and I'm not one to start a gunfight.

Thing is though, I have the right to be on the road, or at the mall, or at the grocer. Hooligans DO NOT have the right to run me off. I can stand my ground.

[poppo]

However, the driver did not have to stop (especially the way he did).

Maybe I missed it. How do we know the driver did or didn't stop in a reasonable manner? Do we know how close the biker was? It really doesn't matter though because I learned about the 2 second follow rule. If the biker was following the 2 second rule, I don't care how fast the car stopped, the bike would have had plenty of time to avoid a rear-end collision.

Yeah, yeah, we all know about the 2 second rule. But how many people actually follow that? I guarantee if I slam on my brakes on 410 any time there is a lot of traffic, I will get rear ended.

How do we know he didn't stop in a reasonable manner? We don't. But we also don't know that he didn't intentionally try to run the motorcycle off the road to begin with either. As already noted, since this is purely a one sided story, we don't and will probably never know what really happened. However, based on what was stated, I would give more odds to him slamming on the brakes than just gently slowing down.

There are also some other things about the story that I am skeptical about. It stated that the motorcycle driver came up to the car screaming and banging on the window. Well, what was he screaming? I envision it was something like "You f'in [abbreviated profanity deleted.], you nearly killed me back there. Are you f'in bind?", or something to that effect. The story conveniently leaves out what was being shouted. Also, all we have is the story teller's word that the guy tried to open the door. Equally plausible was the car driver just decided to flash his gun as soon as the guy walked up.

[RX8er]

Yeah, yeah, we all know about the 2 second rule. But how many people actually follow that? I guarantee if I slam on my brakes on 410 any time there is a lot of traffic, I will get rear ended.

If people did follow it, we wouldn't be having this discussion is my point. Just because people don't follow the law, doesn't make it okay to break it. I know a couple people that follow this, no matter how much traffic there is. And, I can say that these folks have never rear ended anyone.

Also, all we have is the story teller's word that the guy tried to open the door. Equally plausible was the car driver just decided to flash his gun as soon as the guy walked up.

Mamma always told me that there are three sides to every story; his, her's and somewhere in the middle, the truth.

[gemini]

More than likely "Ron" cut the biker off, drifted into his lane, changed lanes without checking
his rear view mirrors, or was texting/talking on phone and driving erratically. I see it all the time.
As others have stated, there's two sides to every story. From what's been presented, I believe "Ron"
was a distracted driver not aware of his environment and made a mistake. I believe the biker had a
legitimate gripe but took it too far.
In my younger days, I too would have been yelling and beating on the window. (ah, foolish youth).
These days I will pull up next to a car, motion for them to roll down the window, and fairly calmly
state, "If you hit me, I won't be able to go home to my wife and kids". Usually the response is "sorry".
When it's not, I let it go. Ride safe.

em mine

And how, may I ask do you come up with that conclusion. Yes we have ONE side of the story, but then that is ALL that is in evidence. Anything else we express is pure speculation and certainly nothing we can say with any degree of certainty or conclude that X is "more than likely".

Unless Ron was sleeping with the bikers wife, I highly doubt the biker would just pick Ron out randomly
and begin a verbal and vehicle assault.
Conclusion? Easy. Because almost every time I am on my motorcycle that exact scenario takes place. Someone drifts
into my lane, a texting driver, someone entering numbers into a cell phone, someone turning left. These things
happen constantly. Not just to me. So, I do believe it's "more than likely" Ron erred in his driving and the biker
reacted.

[poppo]

I know a couple people that follow this, no matter how much traffic there is. And, I can say that these folks have never rear ended anyone.

Yeah, those are the ones that people always pull in front of because of the gap, which in turn causes them to slow down more to re-establish the gap causing traffic to snarl even more, and having everyone going as they pass them.
In other words road rage instigators.

[jocat54]

I know a couple people that follow this, no matter how much traffic there is. And, I can say that these folks have never rear ended anyone.

Yeah, those are the ones that people always pull in front of because of the gap, which in turn causes them to slow down more to re-establish the gap causing traffic to snarl even more, and having everyone going as they pass them.
In other words road rage instigators.

So it's their fault and not the driver who pulled into the gap?

[Purplehood]

I know a couple people that follow this, no matter how much traffic there is. And, I can say that these folks have never rear ended anyone.

Yeah, those are the ones that people always pull in front of because of the gap, which in turn causes them to slow down more to re-establish the gap causing traffic to snarl even more, and having everyone going as they pass them.
In other words road rage instigators.

So it's their fault and not the driver who pulled into the gap?

[poppo]

So it's their fault and not the driver who pulled into the gap?

The point is anyone who says they don't follow closer than they should is probably lying.

Hmm... why is that motorcycle where he is? (I just grabbed a photo and happened to notice it)