Okay, what am I missing?

[Deckeriv]

I hadn't bought a new gun from a firearms dealer in over 15 years until recently. I don't even remember if there were any forms filled out back then because I always bought rifles or shotguns and not handguns. In the past few months I have bought three new guns, a Glock 21, a Glock 36, and an AR-15. Each time I filled out a 4473 the FFL put some information on the form after I filled out my portion. I noticed that on the 4473 they recorded exactly what I bought with type of firearm, serial number, and caliber. Is this information being mailed or transmitted online to the ATF?

Seems like a good start to a gun registry and I don't know how comfortable I am having someone know what is in my gun safe. I wonder if it's accessible by a FOIA request? That would bite.

John

[ScottDLS]

I hadn't bought a new gun from a firearms dealer in over 15 years until recently. I don't even remember if there were any forms filled out back then because I always bought rifles or shotguns and not handguns. In the past few months I have bought three new guns, a Glock 21, a Glock 36, and an AR-15. Each time I filled out a 4473 the FFL put some information on the form after I filled out my portion. I noticed that on the 4473 they recorded exactly what I bought with type of firearm, serial number, and caliber. Is this information being mailed or transmitted online to the ATF?

Seems like a good start to a gun registry and I don't know how comfortable I am having someone know what is in my gun safe. I wonder if it's accessible by a FOIA request? That would bite.

John

The 4473 has been in some form or another since at least 1984 by my recollection (filled one out '84 when buying a rifle). Something similar has probably been there since the 1968 Gun Control Act put the Feds in the business of regulating firearm sales.

What I can tell you for sure is that the gun stores (Federal Firearms Licensees) have always been required to record the type, make/model, and serial #. The records are kept on the premises of the FFLs until they relinquish their license, when they are then mailed to ATF. This is how the ATF does gun traces. They can trace any given gun to the last FFL that sold it. Beyond that, if it was sold in a private sale (non-FFL), given as a gift, lost/stolen, etc. you lose track of the gun.

You may be confusing the 4473's with the actual NICS check data, which must be destroyed after the check is completed. However the 4473 stays. So does the FFL's "bound book" or record of firearm transfers, sales, and inventory, which stays with the FFL for as long as he/she/it has the license.

Certainly the FFL's records, many of which are paper based would be the place to start if you wanted to build a national gun registry. However, there would be millions of guns legally transferred by individuals or bought before 1968. So you'd have to come up with some registration scheme like Canada's failed long gun registry to make people register those. Plus you have millions more "leaking" every year until you require federal paperwork for private sales.

Maybe that's why so many of us are opposed to the kind of "common sense" legislation like closing the gun show "loophole" and requiring background checks and federal paperwork for private sales.

[Deckeriv]

Awesome explanation ScottDLS. Thank you very much.

John

[bayouhazard]

When a dealer goes out of business they have to send their records to ATF. While they are in business, ATF can come and "inspect" the dealer's records.

Don't you feel safer now?

[SF18C]

When a dealer goes out of business they have to send their records to ATF. While they are in business, ATF can come and "inspect" the dealer's records.

Don't you feel safer now?

Only as long as the BATF is without a full time leader and less than 2500 agents for the WHOLE agancy...

[Jumping Frog]

The serial #, make/model is not transmitted to the Feds when they do the background check, the Feds are simply told handgun, rifle/shotgun, or other (bare receiver). By law, there is not supposed to be a database record kept by the Feds of your NICS check, but it is widely believed in certain 2A circles that they do it anyway.

However, the FFL keeps that Form 4373 in their store. Any BATFE'rs visiting the store can get the detailed information from the form, including making copies to take with them.

[VMI77]

I hadn't bought a new gun from a firearms dealer in over 15 years until recently. I don't even remember if there were any forms filled out back then because I always bought rifles or shotguns and not handguns. In the past few months I have bought three new guns, a Glock 21, a Glock 36, and an AR-15. Each time I filled out a 4473 the FFL put some information on the form after I filled out my portion. I noticed that on the 4473 they recorded exactly what I bought with type of firearm, serial number, and caliber. Is this information being mailed or transmitted online to the ATF?

Seems like a good start to a gun registry and I don't know how comfortable I am having someone know what is in my gun safe. I wonder if it's accessible by a FOIA request? That would bite.

John

My father had a FFL back when I was in high school, and I remember filling out 4473s. That was in the early 70s.

[ScottDLS]

I hadn't bought a new gun from a firearms dealer in over 15 years until recently. I don't even remember if there were any forms filled out back then because I always bought rifles or shotguns and not handguns. In the past few months I have bought three new guns, a Glock 21, a Glock 36, and an AR-15. Each time I filled out a 4473 the FFL put some information on the form after I filled out my portion. I noticed that on the 4473 they recorded exactly what I bought with type of firearm, serial number, and caliber. Is this information being mailed or transmitted online to the ATF?

Seems like a good start to a gun registry and I don't know how comfortable I am having someone know what is in my gun safe. I wonder if it's accessible by a FOIA request? That would bite.

John

My father had a FFL back when I was in high school, and I remember filling out 4473s. That was in the early 70s.

In Red Dawn, the 1984 movie version, the Soviet para-trooper officer goes to the local gun shop and asks for the "yellow forms" for all gun sales, so they can round up all the guns from the locals. Or maybe he did say 4473. I haven't seen it since 1984. The 4473's were yellow for as long as I can remember, though I think they changed color recently.

"Wolverines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[USGLOBALASSETS]

I hadn't bought a new gun from a firearms dealer in over 15 years until recently. I don't even remember if there were any forms filled out back then because I always bought rifles or shotguns and not handguns. In the past few months I have bought three new guns, a Glock 21, a Glock 36, and an AR-15. Each time I filled out a 4473 the FFL put some information on the form after I filled out my portion. I noticed that on the 4473 they recorded exactly what I bought with type of firearm, serial number, and caliber. Is this information being mailed or transmitted online to the ATF?

Seems like a good start to a gun registry and I don't know how comfortable I am having someone know what is in my gun safe. I wonder if it's accessible by a FOIA request? That would bite.

John

My father had a FFL back when I was in high school, and I remember filling out 4473s. That was in the early 70s.

In Red Dawn, the 1984 movie version, the Soviet para-trooper officer goes to the local gun shop and asks for the "yellow forms" for all gun sales, so they can round up all the guns from the locals. Or maybe he did say 4473. I haven't seen it since 1984. The 4473's were yellow for as long as I can remember, though I think they changed color recently.

"Wolverines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

They were yellow Now white. and they have made a few changes to question over the last year as well