Born out of Country Requirements

[JP171]

the list of approved documents just says birth certificate, doesn't specify where it has to be from, I think someone at DPS is making arbitrary and capricious decisions. now who do we need to e mail into oblivion to get this bull fixed?

Fix what? A birth certificate from somewhere overseas doesn't prove US Citizenship.

The way I see it, he has three easy choices.
1. Include a copy of his Certificate of U.S. Citizenship (Form N-560 or N-561) to prove he's a US citizen.
2. Include a copy of his U.S. Passort book or U.S, Passport card to prove he's a US citizen.
3. Complain that DPS won't take his word for it.

Another choice it to send what documentation he does have, showing he's a U.S. citizen, and hope DPS accepts that, but there's no guarantees if you decide you don't want to follow the guidelines.

ok a US Consular Birth Certificate is NOT a foreign birth certificate , please check your facts before claiming to know something you know nothing about. A Consular report of birth IS a citizenship verification document. he doesn't need anything else

[Krampus]

1. I don't see where rkjohn said what kind of birth certificate he had.
2. Texas DPS "Notice of Applicant Born Out of Country"

I hope this helps somebody who is more interested in facts than arguing gratia arguing.

[RottenApple]

you should have gotten a certification of birth abroad from the consulates office and a consular birth certificate, those 2 documents are all thats needed not naturalization paper work

This. My wife was born in London while her dad was stationed there. She has a "certification of birth" that came from the US Consulate. When it came time to get her a new passport 5 years ago (for our honeymoon cruise), that was all that was needed. When she got her CHL, she sent in copies of her certification of birth, Passport, and our marriage license (because her DL still had her maiden name on it) and all was well. Nary a hiccup on her app.

[JP171]

1. I don't see where rkjohn said what kind of birth certificate he had.
2. Texas DPS "Notice of Applicant Born Out of Country"

I hope this helps somebody who is more interested in facts than arguing gratia arguing.

he wasn't officially born out of country, he was born at an AIR FORCE hospital, not a civilian hospital the 2 forms from INS are for those born in a civilian hospital to US citizen parents period! a person born on american soil is an american citezen period! he does NOT need the forms all he needs is his Consular Birth Certificate. this isn't arguing its correcting imporoper thinking. The page you are refering to has nothing to do with US citizens unless they were born as foreign nationals first, so again wrong thing to look at.


and I'll tell you how I know my son has his CHL and was born as Flak Army Hospital Augsburg Germany!!!

[Andrew]

1. I don't see where rkjohn said what kind of birth certificate he had.
2. Texas DPS "Notice of Applicant Born Out of Country"

I hope this helps somebody who is more interested in facts than arguing gratia arguing.

he wasn't officially born out of country, he was born at an AIR FORCE hospital, not a civilian hospital the 2 forms from INS are for those born in a civilian hospital to US citizen parents period! a person born on american soil is an american citezen period! he does NOT need the forms all he needs is his Consular Birth Certificate. this isn't arguing its correcting imporoper thinking. The page you are refering to has nothing to do with US citizens unless they were born as foreign nationals first, so again wrong thing to look at.


and I'll tell you how I know my son has his CHL and was born as Flak Army Hospital Augsburg Germany!!!

I agree, my son was born at LRMC, has his consular birth certificate, and a Texas CHL.

[tacticool]

you should have gotten a certification of birth abroad from the consulates office and a consular birth certificate, those 2 documents are all thats needed not naturalization paper work

This. My wife was born in London while her dad was stationed there. She has a "certification of birth" that came from the US Consulate. When it came time to get her a new passport 5 years ago (for our honeymoon cruise), that was all that was needed. When she got her CHL, she sent in copies of her certification of birth, Passport, and our marriage license (because her DL still had her maiden name on it) and all was well. Nary a hiccup on her app.

OP doesn't have a passport. If he did, it would be easy to demonstrate US Citizenship to the satisfaction of DPS. While I agree a CRBA or equivalent should be sufficient, we're dealing with a bureaucracy. However, the simplest approach may be to send in his application with his CRBA and see how DPS responds, if he doesn't mind the risk of some delays.

Personally, I'm a big fan of the Passport Card. I have one in addition to a traditional Passport, which I only use when flying outside the US. On the other hand, I use my Passport Card as ID for domestic air travel, to simultaneously prove identity and right to work for I-9, and as general ID when I don't want to advertise my home address. Basically, if I need ID and I'm not driving, I show my passport card.

[JP171]

you should have gotten a certification of birth abroad from the consulates office and a consular birth certificate, those 2 documents are all thats needed not naturalization paper work

This. My wife was born in London while her dad was stationed there. She has a "certification of birth" that came from the US Consulate. When it came time to get her a new passport 5 years ago (for our honeymoon cruise), that was all that was needed. When she got her CHL, she sent in copies of her certification of birth, Passport, and our marriage license (because her DL still had her maiden name on it) and all was well. Nary a hiccup on her app.

OP doesn't have a passport. If he did, it would be easy to demonstrate US Citizenship to the satisfaction of DPS. While I agree a CRBA or equivalent should be sufficient, we're dealing with a bureaucracy. However, the simplest approach may be to send in his application with his CRBA and see how DPS responds, if he doesn't mind the risk of some delays.

Personally, I'm a big fan of the Passport Card. I have one in addition to a traditional Passport, which I only use when flying outside the US. On the other hand, I use my Passport Card as ID for domestic air travel, to simultaneously prove identity and right to work for I-9, and as general ID when I don't want to advertise my home address. Basically, if I need ID and I'm not driving, I show my passport card.

Passport card sounds like a good deal but the places I travel it isn't good for, certain middle east countries wont take it and after having been in those places you need your regular passport to get home. not the best thing but the way it is

[RottenApple]

OP doesn't have a passport. If he did, it would be easy to demonstrate US Citizenship to the satisfaction of DPS. While I agree a CRBA or equivalent should be sufficient, we're dealing with a bureaucracy. However, the simplest approach may be to send in his application with his CRBA and see how DPS responds, if he doesn't mind the risk of some delays.

Personally, I'm a big fan of the Passport Card. I have one in addition to a traditional Passport, which I only use when flying outside the US. On the other hand, I use my Passport Card as ID for domestic air travel, to simultaneously prove identity and right to work for I-9, and as general ID when I don't want to advertise my home address. Basically, if I need ID and I'm not driving, I show my passport card.

I get that, but that wasn't the point. I was only stating what we sent in for my wife. The "certification of birth" from the Consulate was enough for her to get her passport. She needed nothing else. If the OP has that, then it should be good enough to get their CHL as it does state their citizenship as American.

[rlytle_98]

This was what I was looking for. I was born on a USAF base and didn't understand all this "out of country" documentation. I was born on a US base under US citizens and was thinking I had to go through hoops to get my CHL. I hope they take my birth certificate from the US state dept. If not, I may bag on this CHL and throw my $200+ I've already spent!

[Kythas]

I just did my first renewal and had to send a copy of my Certificate of Citizenship, even though I did that when I originally got my CHL.

I thought they would assume since I already had a CHL then I originally met the requirements and wouldn't have to prove them all over again.

But, they wanted another copy of my DD-214, also. So I guess you have to verify citizenship and veteran status each renewal.

As for the OP's question, wouldn't a passport be proof of citizenship? After all, you can't receive a passport unless you're a citizen.

[gdanaher]

RKJohn,
You are making this much more complicated than it needs to be, and your attitude toward the rest of us who have attempted to assist you does not serve you well. You have a birth certificate issued by the State Department. It defines you as a US citizen. This is all you need. The DPS did not ask for a BC from Texas. It asked for a BC. Sorry you have never had a need for a passport. The rest of the world out there is actually interesting and sometimes educational. Try crossing the border some time and see what happens.

[The Annoyed Man]

I was born in Casablanca, Morocco, and my dad was American and my mother French. That makes me a citizen from birth, and I was unaware of this requirement when I applied for my first license, but a few weeks after sending everything in, I got a letter back from DPS saying that I need to send them a Certificate of Live Birth showing my birth to an American parent. Sent in a photocopy of the photocopy that I have, plus a photocopy of my current passport. 3-4 weeks later I had the license in hand. Easy peasy.

Most likely, it is the Certificate of Live Birth, signed by the local American Consul or Embassy official nearest your place of birth which is what DPS is going to want to see. The good news is that when you renew, it will no longer be an issue.

[Kythas]

Citizenship actually depends on whether or not the parents were married, also.

If married at the time of birth, and one parent was a US citizen, and that parent had lived in the United States for a period of one continuous year prior to the birth of the child, then the child is a US citizen.

If unmarried, the child takes the citizenship of the birth mother. If the mother is a US citizen, and lived in the United States for at least one continuous year prior to the birth, the child is also a US citizen. If the mother is not, and the father is, then the child takes citizenship of the mother unless:

1. Paternity is proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and
2. The father agrees (unless deceased) in writing to provide financial support for the child until the child's 18th birthday, and
3. The father is a US citizen at the time of birth, and
4. While the person is under the age of 18 years—
(A) the person is legitimated under the law of the person’s residence or domicile,
(B) the father acknowledges paternity of the person in writing under oath, or
(C) the paternity of the person is established by adjudication of a competent court.

8 USC § 1409 - Children born out of wedlock

Because of this section of law, there have been instances where US citizens have fathered children overseas, brought them back to the US without their mother, raised them, only to have the children deemed to be deportable non-citizens in their 20s. Because of the provision in Paragraph 4, if the father never established paternity prior to the child's 18th birthday, the father may never legally establish paternity after the child's 18th birthday.

[The Annoyed Man]

In my case, my parents were married, and my American father MORE than met the requirements......not to mention his purple heart and bronze star, earned at Iwo Jima.

[bizarrenormality]

If not, I may bag on this CHL and throw my $200+ I've already spent!

Maybe that's for the best, based on the maturity demonstrated by the comments.