Would like to begin visiting again, and offer my apology

[carlson1]

Forgiveness is a good thing always! It is good to have you back. Like LT said you will have to ask Mr. Cotton about the site.

[txinvestigator]

WHat is a speed trap, how do the police lure people in to commit the crime?

My best friend's grandfather got a ticket in something that is probably a little more than a speed trap, but fits the bill. I believe it was in Arizona out in the middle of nowhere, and he was pulled over for speeding. The sheriff cited him with a speed limit change that he did not observe. The grandfather saw no such speed limit change, and had the sheriff take him back to show him the sign. When they got there, the officer took his jacket sleeve and wiped off a thick layer of mud from the sign. Naturally, the grandfather took this to court, but got no sympathy from the judge and was ordered to pay the fine.

As it turns out, the judge and sheriff had an arrangement of sorts, and the entire thing was a setup that had been going on for a long time to generate ticket revenue. Once it came out what was happening, the judge and sheriff were deposed from their positions and those ticketed were exonerated.

I wish I knew more specifics, but the grandfather has since passed on, and this predated the popular use of the internet, so I can't find any of the details online.

Although I don't doubt the possibility, how would the fact that the judge and Sheriff had an arrangement be known? Stories tend to morph as they are told down the line, especially ones this old. I also can't imagine a LEO taking a person back to the speed limit sign.

Intentionally hiding a sign would be, IMO, a trap. However, to most people the term means ANY speed enforcement. It just ain't so.

[NcongruNt]

WHat is a speed trap, how do the police lure people in to commit the crime?

My best friend's grandfather got a ticket in something that is probably a little more than a speed trap, but fits the bill. I believe it was in Arizona out in the middle of nowhere, and he was pulled over for speeding. The sheriff cited him with a speed limit change that he did not observe. The grandfather saw no such speed limit change, and had the sheriff take him back to show him the sign. When they got there, the officer took his jacket sleeve and wiped off a thick layer of mud from the sign. Naturally, the grandfather took this to court, but got no sympathy from the judge and was ordered to pay the fine.

As it turns out, the judge and sheriff had an arrangement of sorts, and the entire thing was a setup that had been going on for a long time to generate ticket revenue. Once it came out what was happening, the judge and sheriff were deposed from their positions and those ticketed were exonerated.

I wish I knew more specifics, but the grandfather has since passed on, and this predated the popular use of the internet, so I can't find any of the details online.

Although I don't doubt the possibility, how would the fact that the judge and Sheriff had an arrangement be known? Stories tend to morph as they are told down the line, especially ones this old. I also can't imagine a LEO taking a person back to the speed limit sign.

Intentionally hiding a sign would be, IMO, a trap. However, to most people the term means ANY speed enforcement. It just ain't so.

I agree that the spectrum of what any particular person considers a "speed trap" varies widely from individual to individual. I think a proper definition would be more along the lines of the police/sheriffs taking advantage of poorly marked roads to issue tickets, rather than than working to remedy the problem with the clear posting of signs. It's not a black and white issue for sure. There are people that willingly speed and then there are people who unintentionally speed because of the road conditions. I've been on many a road that, because of the surroundings, had a relatively steep grade which was not apparent - a road where one can accidentally speed if not careful. Such places are a haven for police running radar at the bottom, waiting for speeders. Running radar has its place in keeping people driving safe, I'm not arguing that. It would probably cut down on violations to place a cautionary sign warning of the grade of the road, and a reminder to watch one's speed. The only place I generally see such a sign is where one could conceivably run off the road, such as a mountain pass. I think this would be a great step in the promotion of public safety, and prevent unintentional speeding in such a situation. Then again, maybe I'm too optimistic about the willingness of people to control their speed.

[Lucky45]

Don't worry about it, Russell. Whenever you finish the website, if you need a Moderator, CALL ME.

[Venus Pax]

No hard feelings. Welcome back.

[Bubba]

This is all new to me. I missed the mess but thats fine. The 30.06 site sounds interesting. Get on with it :)

[propellerhead]

WHat is a speed trap, how do the police lure people in to commit the crime?

It's slang for 'a place where I got busted for speeding'. Just about everybody on the street uses the term.

[40FIVER]

Consider making it a little generic. I wouldn't be surprised if other states would like to join in and make their submissions. Did you ever read about http://www.speedtrap.org? It started out as one guy's online database of speed traps in his local area. It has then become an international registry for known speed traps... well beyond the creators dream.

WHat is a speed trap, how do the police lure people in to commit the crime?

You're quite correct, TXI. Do the crime, pay the fine.

Now, back to the original post.

Welcome back, Russell.

[jimlongley]

WHat is a speed trap, how do the police lure people in to commit the crime?

Well, back in the 60s on of our town cops used to hang a 30 sign over the 40 sign at the edge of town and bust people on radar (the old kind that sat by the side of the road on a camera tripod) and the tickets would read "10mph over posted speed." Ours was the major thoroughfare between the state park and its pool and the city, so traffic was heavy, and many did not notice the changed sign, and only the few that actually chose to go to trial after the JP hearing would actually get "excused."

Where he set up was less than a tenth of a mile from my (third floor) bedroom window, and I used to consider going down to the courthouse and testifying against him.

Same cop busted me for exceeding in a school zone once, but I knew he had the intersection staked out and was being scrupulous about the limit. Lots more to that story, but suffice it to say that a 60s cop being a cowboy would probably not happen today, except in a small town like ours was.

[Kyle Brown]

Russell, if you own the domain, why do you need anyone's premission to activate it? I say go for it.

[wrt45]

Well, back in the 60s on of our town cops used to hang a 30 sign over the 40 sign at the edge of town and bust people on radar (the old kind that sat by the side of the road on a camera tripod) and the tickets would read "10mph over posted speed."

When I was in grad school, in Kansas City(30 years ago), I watched from a fifth floor window in one of our classroom buildings while a trio of KC police stopped on the busy street below. They opened the trunk of one of the cruisers and took out a folding speed limit sign - 10mph under the regular speed limit- and put it beside the road. After less than an hour of writing tickets, they picked up their sign and left.

At the time, in addition to grad school, I was a campus cop. I had heard from other campus cops that they sometimes did this when they were told to "write more tickets" but didn't really believe it until I saw it myself.

Thats what I call a speed trap.......motivated by intentional revenue enhancement without regard for what is right and ethical.

[kw5kw]

Welcome back Mr. Smurf! I'm glad that you're progressing in your studies, and that you can do something that I most certainly can't do... databases on web sites. Now with local stuff in Access I'm ok.

Html is just another facet in the world of computing, one that I don't know... I'm into fixing networked printers myself.

Glad to see you back here!

Russ