Bad Experience

[Abraham]

68blackbird,

Why is "Thank you for your cooperation..." posted on the card?

If I understand it correctly, you're thanking a business for not cooperating aren't you? If they were cooperating, CHLer's would be welcome.

(or, do I completely misunderstand?)

[harrycallahan]

First, concealed should be concealed. Something went wrong there. I'm sorry, but that is a fact. Unless he has X-ray eyes. Second, upon being taken aside by the manager, you never disclose that you're carrying. Till him anything but. He's not a police officer or a friend, therefore he has zero right to intrude upon you.

[gringo pistolero]

First, concealed should be concealed. Something went wrong there. I'm sorry, but that is a fact. Unless he has X-ray eyes. Second, upon being taken aside by the manager, you never disclose that you're carrying. Till him anything but. He's not a police officer or a friend, therefore he has zero right to intrude upon you.

If you're a guest in his place of business, he has every right to ask the question, and also to refuse service to anyone.

[Oldgringo]

First, concealed should be concealed. Something went wrong there. I'm sorry, but that is a fact. Unless he has X-ray eyes. Second, upon being taken aside by the manager, you never disclose that you're carrying. Till him anything but. He's not a police officer or a friend, therefore he has zero right to intrude upon you.

If you're a guest in his place of business, he has every right to ask the question, and also to refuse service to anyone.

Works for the home/house where you might be visiting, also.

[WildBill]

68blackbird,

Why is "Thank you for your cooperation..." posted on the card?

If I understand it correctly, you're thanking a business for not cooperating aren't you? If they were cooperating, CHLer's would be welcome.

(or, do I completely misunderstand?)

Maybe he has good manners and is being polite. Thanks for listening.

[Abraham]

WildBill,

That's a reasonable assumption.

If your correct, in my opinion, such politeness misses the target, if you will...

A thank you for something not in evidence is confusing.

I can picture some anti-gun person reading the card, not really understanding the message...and so the card, is in effect, wasted.

Perhaps, all will become clearer when/if 68blackbird gets back to us.

[harrycallahan]

First, concealed should be concealed. Something went wrong there. I'm sorry, but that is a fact. Unless he has X-ray eyes. Second, upon being taken aside by the manager, you never disclose that you're carrying. Till him anything but. He's not a police officer or a friend, therefore he has zero right to intrude upon you.

If you're a guest in his place of business, he has every right to ask the question, and also to refuse service to anyone.

The point I am trying to get across is this and that is he has NO authority to compel any one to answer any question regarding what he thinks might be a firearm. None. If he does, find the Texas statute that says I do and I'll read. Here is what I think went down and that plus .02 won't get you anything.

1. I think this guys concealment failed completely. If not, it was so bad and/or obvious that it may as well been uncovered.
2. I wouldn't have allowed myself to be interrupted/pulled aside for this.
3. I wouldn't have answered any question put forth by this manager.
4. I think he made an error by his admission.
5. I certainly wouldn't have disarmed and then returned. No way, no how.

He would have had to have called the police and brought them to my table and only then would I have disclosed my CHL status.

[brainman]

Harry,

You're right that he has no authority to compel you to answer questions regarding whether you are carrying. However, the manager doesn't have to know whether or not you are carrying. Whether you refuse to answer his question or not, once he tells you that concealed handguns are not allowed, you have been given notice and you're committing an offense by staying.

PC §30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY
CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the
license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter
411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent;
and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed
handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was
forbidden and failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner
of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner
provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.

[harrycallahan]

I understand what you're saying and I know what 30.05 and 30.06 say. I also know that NO ONE, police that is, will arrest on either pc 30.05 or 30.06 in this situation unless effect notice and thereby refusal to leave was/is giving in the presence of the police officer. If what you're saying would actually be true, he, the manager, could conceivably call the police and have any CCW patron arrested by simply lying to the officer. Not gonna happen my friend. And, if you'll re-read my post, I wasn't critical of 30.06. I was critical of his sloppy concealment and his admissive statements to an otherwise ignorant manager.

[RPBrown]

GT, First let me say welcome to the forum.

I am not going to get on you about telling them about signage or your carry method.

What I am going to do is to tell you that I used to carry a G21. That is until the arthritus in my fingers prevented me from breaking it down. I would carry IWB or OWB and never got made. I was in that Hooters a few times and never was a word said about it.

I think (not sure of your carry rig) that most of all you may want to look at a good quality gun belt. A good belt can be the difference in having or not having "the bulge". It will keep your weapon close to body rather than sticking out whe leaning over.

And as someone earlier said, sitting position/location is also recommended.

[carlson1]

I think (not sure of your carry rig) that most of all you may want to look at a good quality gun belt. A good belt can be the difference in having or not having "the bulge". It will keep your weapon close to body rather than sticking out whe leaning over.

[TexasCajun]

I think (not sure of your carry rig) that most of all you may want to look at a good quality gun belt. A good belt can be the difference in having or not having "the bulge". It will keep your weapon close to body rather than sticking out whe leaning over.

+1 on the belt. I've only got a mediocre one (Cabella's Double Duty) and I can tell the difference. At my next opportunity, I'm going for a bit higher end belt. I think one with a kydex insert may be the ticket.

[smoothoperator]

I understand what you're saying and I know what 30.05 and 30.06 say. I also know that NO ONE, police that is, will arrest on either pc 30.05 or 30.06 in this situation unless effect notice and thereby refusal to leave was/is giving in the presence of the police officer. If what you're saying would actually be true, he, the manager, could conceivably call the police and have any CCW patron arrested by simply lying to the officer.

What if he tells the truth? The manager calls 911 and says there's a guy with a gun who refuses to leave.

[brainman]

I understand what you're saying and I know what 30.05 and 30.06 say. I also know that NO ONE, police that is, will arrest on either pc 30.05 or 30.06 in this situation unless effect notice and thereby refusal to leave was/is giving in the presence of the police officer. If what you're saying would actually be true, he, the manager, could conceivably call the police and have any CCW patron arrested by simply lying to the officer.

What if he tells the truth? The manager calls 911 and says there's a guy with a gun who refuses to leave.

If you'll re-read my post, Harry, you'll note that I did not discuss whether one would get arrested. You've used the words "if what you're saying would actually be true." Sorry, but what I said is quite objectively true and really isn't debatable. If the manager tells you guns aren't allowed and you stay, then you ARE committing a crime. Whether you'll be arrested or convicted is a separate issue that I haven't yet brought up.

Having said that, I think SmoothOperator has it right. When the manager tells you you're not allowed to carry and you tell him its none of his business or that you're not carrying (or whatever you plan to say), he will likely then call the police. When they show up, he'll tell them that he told you to leave and that you wouldn't. What's your plan at this point? You've already committed one crime. Do you plan on lying to the police as well? I don't think that one is going to go as smooth as you think it will. Plus, even if you aren't caught or arrested, you've still trespassed. Personally, I try not to commit crimes, whether I'm going to get caught or not.

[Oldgringo]

Well spoken, brainman!

There are times when 'pride comes before a fall' and/or when 'discretion is the better part of valor'. This situation strikes this OWG as a time when both of these maxims would apply.