Texas soldier faces legal battle over gun in hospitial

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cbunt1
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Re: Texas soldier faces legal battle over gun in hospitial

#166

Post by cbunt1 »

JALLEN wrote:
cbunt1 wrote:

I have spend 37 years wishing I could be on a jury, and in California lawyers are subject to call for jury duty. I have been 5 or 6 times but never sent out on a panel. It has to be fascinating.
I sat on a Civil jury a year or so ago. Fascinating wasn't the word I would have used. I walked into the ordeal with the mindset that I was smart enough to get out of jury duty...by the time we made it to the first stages of the selection process, I had watched some of the most reasonable and potentially (my opinion) best jurors talk their way into excuse....I decided I owed it to my fellow citizens to remain on the jury.

Unfortunately, I still think that that particular jury had about 8 members with the right mindset, 2 that were a bit overwhelmed with the process, and two that resented the heck out of the fact that they weren't smart enough to get out of duty...I finally had to explain to one of them that he OWED it to both parties of the case to deliberate and discuss instead of bitterly grousing he'd go with the majority, just to get out of there...

I learned things about mankind that I didn't expect to learn. The trip into the legal system was interesting, but the real life-lessons I learned from the experience were more about people than law...particularly how people are more willing to commit an expedient act than a just act...
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Re: Texas soldier faces legal battle over gun in hospitial

#167

Post by Dave2 »

JALLEN wrote:As a lawyer, though, I would not allow any lawyer to remain on the jury if I could help it. The risk is too great that once the jury room door closes, the rest of the jurors would look down at the one lawyer and say, "What the hey was that all about?" IOW, the lawyer might have more influence on the other jurors than otherwise.
What if all the jurors were lawyers?

I bet deliberations would take a while.
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Re: Texas soldier faces legal battle over gun in hospitial

#168

Post by JALLEN »

cbunt1 wrote:
JALLEN wrote:
cbunt1 wrote:

I have spend 37 years wishing I could be on a jury, and in California lawyers are subject to call for jury duty. I have been 5 or 6 times but never sent out on a panel. It has to be fascinating.

I learned things about mankind that I didn't expect to learn. The trip into the legal system was interesting, but the real life-lessons I learned from the experience were more about people than law...particularly how people are more willing to commit an expedient act than a just act...
This is precisely why I thought it would be fascinating to experience first hand, at least once, the interactions, the motivations, of real life that we lawyers spend so much of our professional lives worrying, thinking, plotting and scheming about, trying to anticipate, persuade, etc. Figuring out how to present a case that engages and keeps the attention of the jury, persuades, informs, etc is critically important for all prepared trial lawyers.

I tried real estate cases mostly, boring, boring, boring, all technical, paperwork foul ups usually, and keeping everyone awake was a major preoccupation. No smoking guns (well, once!) no sex, no squalid Perry Mason type dramas.

As former Governor Bush said, "You can fool some of the people all the time, and that's who I want to concentrate on!" :cool:
Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.
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Re: Texas soldier faces legal battle over gun in hospitial

#169

Post by WildBill »

Dave2 wrote:
JALLEN wrote:As a lawyer, though, I would not allow any lawyer to remain on the jury if I could help it. The risk is too great that once the jury room door closes, the rest of the jurors would look down at the one lawyer and say, "What the hey was that all about?" IOW, the lawyer might have more influence on the other jurors than otherwise.
What if all the jurors were lawyers?

I bet deliberations would take a while.
That is one reason why lawyers are usually not selected as jurors. They do not want jurors to know anything about the law, other than what the judge tells them.
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Re: Texas soldier faces legal battle over gun in hospitial

#170

Post by JALLEN »

WildBill wrote:
Dave2 wrote:
JALLEN wrote:As a lawyer, though, I would not allow any lawyer to remain on the jury if I could help it. The risk is too great that once the jury room door closes, the rest of the jurors would look down at the one lawyer and say, "What the hey was that all about?" IOW, the lawyer might have more influence on the other jurors than otherwise.
What if all the jurors were lawyers?

I bet deliberations would take a while.
That is one reason why lawyers are usually not selected as jurors. They do not want jurors to know anything about the law, other than what the judge tells them.
In the cases I tried, I would have been thrilled to death to have the jurors know the law, at least that which pertained to the case before them. The problem with a lawyer being on the jury from my standpoint was (s)he would bring the rest of the jurors with him/her, as they would be tempted to take his/her word for how things worked, what this meant, etc. I only took cases to trial that I would win, so I didn't want some bozo who thought (s)he knew everything messing things up!
Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.
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Re: Texas soldier faces legal battle over gun in hospitial

#171

Post by WildBill »

JALLEN wrote:
RottenApple wrote:
In your experience (and I know you said you aren't a criminal defense attorney), would the mere absence of corroborating evidence (nothing in the police report, no breathalyzer test, no blood test, no FST) be enough to create reasonable doubt? I can tell you that if I sat on a jury overseeing such a case, I would be very, very skeptical of the prosecution.
Reasonable doubt is not a fixed, measurable concept, but whatever the trier of fact says it is. The appeals process can say there was enough evidence, if believed by the jury, to justify the verdict, for example, but they can't say that the jury should have believed it.

Many of us remember the OJ trial....
I was going to bring this up, but decided not to. Since you opened the door, Fuhrman stated in his book that his initial report from the crime scene and OJ's house was given to Marcia Clark, but was not given to the detective who took over so it was not presented at the trial.
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Re: Texas soldier faces legal battle over gun in hospitial

#172

Post by JALLEN »

WildBill wrote:
JALLEN wrote:
Many of us remember the OJ trial....
I was going to bring this up, but decided not to. Since you opened the door, Fuhrman stated in his book that his initial report from the crime scene and OJ's house was given to Marcia Clark, but was not given to the detective who took over so it was not presented at the trial.
So what? Fuhrman could have, and did, testify to all sorts of facts and observances, maybe including the facts in that report, and ended up, astonishingly enough, as the only person convicted of a felony as a result of that trial, perjury! The jury was entitled to disregard every word of his testimony, and may have. Out of the presence of the jury, he also took the 5th, invoking his right not to incriminate himself, when asked if he had ever falsified a police report or planted evidence.

This isn't the place to rehash all the ins and outs of that fiasco, although it is quite interesting, especially to us lawyers. My take on it, after all these years, is that the LA District Attorneys staff got so used to having its way in trials, getting away with corner cutting, all sorts of sloppy nonsense, covering up little details that didn't fit, etc. that when someone came along who could check every detail every nuance, they got caught. Going up against court appointed attorneys all the time, and getting away with it time after time, sort of anesthetized them, so when they had to go up against big league pitching, they couldn't hit it.

Videos of parts of that trial will be shown in trial practice classes for a thousand years, classic examples of trial do's and don'ts.
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Re: Texas soldier faces legal battle over gun in hospitial

#173

Post by jimlongley »

JALLEN wrote: . . . To a certain extent, this is understandable to anyone who has ever played the game where everyone sits in a circle, then someone whispers a common saying to the person next to him or her, that person whispers what (s)he heard to the next person etc all around the circle, whereupon the last person announces what he heard. Almost every time, "Remember the Alamo" comes out "Better living through Chemistry" or something completely different than what the original person started with.

Some years ago, a pistol was stolen from my home. Eventually, I ended up down at the local station giving a report to an officer who diligently wrote in the little notebook they all seem to carry. When I eventually received a copy of the report, I was astonished at the variances between what I reported and what the report actually said. On another occasion, my communications to the detective about the status of endorsement of a check was mishandled in the police report and resulted in someone being arrested for a felony, wrongly, and I narrowly avoided being sued over it! Needless to say, I view police reports as not necessarily the last word in evidentiary reliability, unless corroborated by other credible evidence.

Being charged with intoxication days after the event, with no reference in any police report of intoxication, would be suspicious to me, and put the DA behind in the race for proof beyond a reasonable doubt. It could be overcome but there had better be a really good story about it and lots of corroboration.
Indeed the Whisper Game.

In my own case the doctor's "dictation" (for that is what they kept referring to it as) kept me from getting an on the job injury treated: A) Promptly; B) As an on the job injury, and the effects will last the rest of my life. I injured my shoulder in Boot Camp in the Navy in 1967 (minor, not reported), then again aboard ship in 1968 (minor, reported and treated), and once more in 1972 working for the phone company (minor, reported and treated). Never had another shoulder issue until I was working for TSA in 2003 and I tried to lift a VERY heavy bag (way over the 75 pound limit) and people on the other side of a noisy room heard the pop and tear when it went.

After xrays and MRIs and CT scans the doctor said it looked like there might have been a prior injury, and I explained the circumstances of those three occasions, and that went in his notes as "Long history of shoulder injuries" which of course resulted in a denial of the claim by Workman's Comp, and even a denial of full coverage by my own insurance (who claimed that it was both an on the job injury and therefore not covered, and a prior injury and not covered.) And the surgery that was done did not fix all of the problems, so I am sentenced to a lifetime of pain unless and until I can come up with the cash to cover the necessary surgeries myself.

So much for being honest and aboveboard.

The doctor, when asked to correct his notes, recalled what I had said to him, but said he could not modify his notes in any way because they were the official record, etc, etc, etc.

I'll bet a police officer's notebook is considered the "ne plus ultra" of evidence and whatever he writes is always the official version.
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Re: Texas soldier faces legal battle over gun in hospitial

#174

Post by WildBill »

JALLEN wrote:
WildBill wrote:
JALLEN wrote:
Many of us remember the OJ trial....
I was going to bring this up, but decided not to. Since you opened the door, Fuhrman stated in his book that his initial report from the crime scene and OJ's house was given to Marcia Clark, but was not given to the detective who took over so it was not presented at the trial.
So what?
This was merely an example to show that police reports are not always introduced as evidence at a trial. I was not commenting on the content of the report, the veracity of Fuhrman, how the trial was handled or the verdict.
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Re: Texas soldier faces legal battle over gun in hospitial

#175

Post by Dragonfighter »

Heartland Patriot wrote:
Jim Beaux wrote:Not gonna go to the trouble of looking it up but I think no alcohol testing is required to convict for public intoxication. The LEO's opinion is enough and if the security guy's testimony concurs this may create bigger problems for the CHL. Hoping that justice wins. (did I read one gal drank almost 4 bottles of wine by herself?)
Why would no sort of proof be required to prove PI? Once again, nothing against law enforcement in the least, but what if the officer involved just doesn't like alcohol, or is ticked off about working a shift that he was supposed to be off or a thousand other things, and decides to take it out on the NEXT PERSON he gets called out because of? <SNIP> Not saying that LEOs shouldn't be able to ARREST someone they think might be a hazard...I'm talking about CONVICTING someone. I hope that you guys and gals can see the difference in what I am saying.
Then there is DKA (Diabetic Keto-acidosis) where thebody starts breathing off ketones from uncontrolled blood glucose levels. The symptoms are very much like intoxication and the "acetone" breath very much like alcohol. It took a dead diabetic at Lew Sterrett to do so, but in Dallas paramedics are called to DWI stops all the time to verify sugar levels (D-Stick).
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Re: Texas soldier faces legal battle over gun in hospitial

#176

Post by WildBill »

Dragonfighter wrote:
Heartland Patriot wrote:
Jim Beaux wrote:Not gonna go to the trouble of looking it up but I think no alcohol testing is required to convict for public intoxication. The LEO's opinion is enough and if the security guy's testimony concurs this may create bigger problems for the CHL. Hoping that justice wins. (did I read one gal drank almost 4 bottles of wine by herself?)
Why would no sort of proof be required to prove PI? Once again, nothing against law enforcement in the least, but what if the officer involved just doesn't like alcohol, or is ticked off about working a shift that he was supposed to be off or a thousand other things, and decides to take it out on the NEXT PERSON he gets called out because of? <SNIP> Not saying that LEOs shouldn't be able to ARREST someone they think might be a hazard...I'm talking about CONVICTING someone. I hope that you guys and gals can see the difference in what I am saying.
Then there is DKA (Diabetic Keto-acidosis) where the body starts breathing off ketones from uncontrolled blood glucose levels. The symptoms are very much like intoxication and the "acetone" breath very much like alcohol. It took a dead diabetic at Lew Sterrett to do so, but in Dallas paramedics are called to DWI stops all the time to verify sugar levels (D-Stick).
:iagree: DKA is a well known condition that can be confused with alcohol intoxication.
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Re: Texas soldier faces legal battle over gun in hospitial

#177

Post by Jaguar »

bronco78 wrote:
yes did the officer document his belief of suicidal ideation/action,
Wow, talk about left field,, but ok sure I'll look closely.
did he document that he asked/told the actor to leave his weapon at home,

Ok will do.
what if any was his rational for the above,

I think your looking for content not normally in a police report now, but ok sure I'll respond back as to what i find on this "question"
did he document anything about the actor and alcohol of any sort, not the wife
yes of course, and it will will have content reference this, to what Im not positive yet.
Also what department/city, I might like to file a FIA.
i'll record that as well... :cheers2:
bronco78,

Did you meet with the lawyer? If so, what are your views on this case as it stands now? I haven't heard anything lately, but would not like to see this soldier get railroaded.

Thanks.
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Re: Texas soldier faces legal battle over gun in hospitial

#178

Post by WildBill »

The trial date is rapidly approaching. Is there anything new?
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Re: Texas soldier faces legal battle over gun in hospitial

#179

Post by E.Marquez »

Have not heard back from the lawyer since before the long weekend..

I'll give him a call in the morning.

My thought was, if he wants help, the effort should be on them.
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Re: Texas soldier faces legal battle over gun in hospitial

#180

Post by jmra »

Hear anything new?
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