Venting about Renewal Class !!

[Charles L. Cotton]

This is your site so you can make any rules you want but a forum rule against outing bad instructors is different than a lawyer saying, "That's an invitation to a lawsuit." Are CHL instructors legally different than other businesses, or do Angie's List and similar rating sites generally invite lawsuits, regardless of the type of service provider being rated?
I'm genuinely curious. Thanks.

There are two sides to every story and offering a so-called "review" only gives one side. No, CHL instructors aren't different from other businesses or Angie's List, but so-called "reviews" of other businesses aren't going to be posted here either. Anyone who wants to start a CHL instructor review site can do so quite easily. Just register the domain name, get server space and open the site. I'll wish them the best of luck, but there won't be any links here. Why does my desire not to be part of such a venture upsetting?

Chas.

[tbrown]

I can't speak for anyone else, but your decision to not allow it on this site doesn't upset me at all. I was genuinely curious about your comment that it's an invitation to a lawsuit. I still am.

[MasterOfNone]

I know Yelp faced a class-action suit claiming that their "prorietary" filter was used to punish businesses that declined to advertise with them. It was dismissed by the judge.

[srothstein]

I can't speak for anyone else, but your decision to not allow it on this site doesn't upset me at all. I was genuinely curious about your comment that it's an invitation to a lawsuit. I still am.

I would think that any review website of any type is an invitation to a lawsuit. A bad review can be claimed by the reviewee to be libel, and the publisher might be liable under the law. I know there are some laws protecting people who just carry other people's comments (like a forum) but I am not sure exactly how they apply to a review site. And even if you win the lawsuit under those laws, the costs of defending it may be expensive. For a business, that is just something to figure into the cost/profit equation. For an individual, besides the financial cost is the emotional problems to consider.

[Keith B]

I recently purchased an item that I felt was improperly produced when they printed it. The image was off-center and very noticeable due the the original design and the border close to the edge. The item was printed fine 2 years ago, but when I went to restock, then the new ones were printed shifted 1mm to the left. Supposedly this is an 'acceptable' amount of shift and happens during the printing and/or cutting process. I won't get into 'bleed', cutter balance etc, but the original design was by them and they should have either told me of the possibility of it happening or made a design that would not show the shift. I was then informed they would not reprint the item per their policy as it was 'good enough'.

Anyway, I stated my displeasure and said that I would have to give them a negative review if asked about their product. The owner came back and threatened me if I 'slandered' him and his business. I explained the difference between reviewing a business in a professional way and slander/libel. The rest of what I told him can't be posted here.

As for being able to sue, you can sue for anything. This is not a review sight, and keeping those specific types of individual perceptions in lists off the board keeps those that may want to try and sue the OP or the forum owner from coming forward and just prevents a basic stinky thread that the mods have to deal with in the first place.

[speedsix]

...as cheap as paper and ink are, had he cared one whit about your future business or his reputation, he would have gladly reprinted it for you...he told you he didn't care...wonder what that and the ripple effect will do to his bottom line over the years...

[wgoforth]

I know Yelp faced a class-action suit claiming that their "prorietary" filter was used to punish businesses that declined to advertise with them. It was dismissed by the judge.

First hand experience about Yelp. I have only one reviewer of my classes showing. Yet, on my end I can see half a dozen reviews from other students to my classes. They were all "filtered" out. Reasons are never given, other than a generic "this is to prevent users from rating their own business or friends." To me, this shows online reviews to be biased and purposely wanting to show more negative.

[Daltex]

Ok- the CHL course review site is up and running. I purchased a domain name and hope you all join in the discussion.

hppt:\\www.CharlesL.Cotton'sCHL-Class-Review.com




JUST KIDDING !!!!

I totally understand the reason behind not allowing open evaluations. In my orig. post I really just wanted to vent. I think the main reason I didn't want to post detailed info about the class I took was that maybe it was only me and the two people I befriended that were disgruntled with the class. Maybe it was just a bad day for the instructor. Since I've been shooting all my life maybe it was just boring to me but to a novice it was really helpful. Perhaps some smart owner of a CHL class could offer varying levels of classes- beginner and advanced. The advanced class could be less about how to handle the weapon and go into more detail about situations that have occurred and discuss different tactics on handling them.

Bottom line: I don't think anyone could provide a single course that would please everyone. Now that we have to only take the classroom part every ten years it just seems like much to do about nothing to rate instructors that may need the income. Soooo..... less of a concern about lawsuits and more of a concern about such a subjective criteria as this to me anyway- YMMV.

[johncanfield]

...Anyway, I stated my displeasure and said that I would have to give them a negative review if asked about their product. The owner came back and threatened me if I 'slandered' him and his business. I explained the difference between reviewing a business in a professional way and slander/libel. The rest of what I told him can't be posted here.

As for being able to sue, you can sue for anything. This is not a review sight, and keeping those specific types of individual perceptions in lists off the board keeps those that may want to try and sue the OP or the forum owner from coming forward and just prevents a basic stinky thread that the mods have to deal with in the first place.

One of my very favorite college classes was business law, I wish I could taken a couple more of them. Anyway, it isn't slander as long as you are sticking to facts, i.e., the printing was shifted 10mm to the left which did not meet my requirements, I ordered a brown widget and they delivered a green widget, my order was promised to be ready in ten days and it took 20 days, etc., etc. Like Keith says, anybody can file a lawsuit for any reason and many businesses do just that to harass those whom they believe have damaged their reputation/goodwill - either real or imagined.

[smoothoperator]

Maybe a BBB complaint is the best answer.

[1s1k52]

Maybe a BBB complaint is the best answer.

I was thinking the same thing but if they are not reconized by the BBB wonder if it matters? I know when you go to do the review it does give you the ability to fill out information about someone they do not have in their list.

Instead of stating "No not here...lawsuites...etc" Can anyone make suggestions? or are we leaving it to hope people will join to ask? I know I did when I joined and I think maybe one person recommended where I ended up going. I don't remember reading anywhere, unless they were PMed, someone being in trouble here for answering the questions i was asking. I don't see the difference in a lot of ways. Is it because I was seeking the information?

For example, someone mentioned The Bullet Trap working out well for them in Plano. Am I slandering them by saying in response to that statement I did not share that same feeling? Would it be slander to state when I called they were rude, brief, uninformative, made it sound complicated in the fact I would have to visit them 3 different times with prints, shooting, and the class and have to make appointments to do so?

I am not a lawyer but I do know how to argue things from both sides of a conversation. So what I have gathered is the whole thing is being desired to avoid.

Charles I appreciate everything this site offers more than you know. Maybe create a sticky or something for people to post where they went? I don't really have a solution to be honest. I just remember being new to CHL and finding this site after already being told a lot of false information and even then kind of had to dig around here. Fortunately the site is FULL of very friendly, informative, patient people that took time to "dumb" things down for me.

[Keith B]

I don't think the issue is stating that you didn't have the best experience at your individual class. However, if you create a specific website or an area for negative reviews on instructors/classes, then it could be construed you are specifically looking to bash a business and create problems for them.

Best IMO to state your personal experience (as you have done), then move on and not try to defame or run down the business further by putting out negative publicity. As you already stated, it may have just been you and the other guy's high expectations not being met, the instructor having a bad day, etc.

[1s1k52]

All good points. My expectations were wanting to get everything done same place same day. I missed the mark and had to have L1 do prints I was upset about till the instructor said it has sped up a lot of the process.

[nakedbike]

Just register the domain name, get server space and open the site.

Its a bit more complicated than that, some one would need to develop the site (code) for such a thing. I can do it if some one wants to fund it.

Will work for bullets.

If that breaks any rules feel free to remove it.

[RoyGBiv]

TXCHLCLASSREVIEWS.COM
Is still available.