CHL holder accidently discharges weapon at work question

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

I can't find it, I agree with you, if you want to show your buddy your new gun take him to the range. I think this guy is lucky he didn't end up in serious trouble.

Just to play a little 's advocate, where in the law does it allow for a person to fail to conceal his handgun at a range for the purpose of showing it to a friend or selling it?

I believe TPC 42.01 #7 would cover this.

(7) discharges a firearm in a public place other than a public road or a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code;

and TPC 46.15

b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(1) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section 431.001, Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal institution;
(2) is traveling;
(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

[Beiruty]

masterofnone:

While engaged in sporting activity, there is no needed to conceal, you can open carry too. Moreover, while walking to and from range you can open carry too.

(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
.....(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

[canvasbck]

For all those that feel I am in the wrong and am showing no mercy please show me where in the Penal Code it says that it is a defense to prosecution if a license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun while showing it to a friend, coworker, cleaning it, or anything else other than self-defense.

If I see this defense to prosecution I will gladly admit my being wrong in this matter and give up on my side of the argument.

You are all claiming that this was an "accident". How can have the facts and still claim this? He was carrying under the authority of his CHL and intentionally pulled the gun from his backpack to show a coworker. He failed to clear it and intentionally pulled the trigger (I agree that the discharge of the firearm was an accident due to negligence but as I stated earlier in the thread I see a LEO or DA having no problem with this as he intentionally pulled the trigger).

So, please show me in the law where he was in the right or has a defense to prosecution.

No one can point that out to you because it doesn't exist in law. Yes, by the strict interpretation that you are applying to the law, what he did was illegal.

Common sense says that there is a huge difference between pulling it out of a backpack in a breakroom at work because someone in the room asked to see it and openly carrying to the mall. I believe that the intent of the law was to prevent the latter instead of the former. It also serves to prevent someone from using the firearm as a tool for intimidation.

Yes, an overzealous prosecutor could try to make a case out of this, just as an overzealous DOJ can raid a guitar factory for buying fingerboard blanks. Only seeing black and white in the law with no grey quickly leads to situations where normally law abiding citizens are hauled of to the gulag, er jail, over acts that did not victimize anyone, didn't hurt anything, and only serve to punish those who the police/system choose to punish.

Again, I still agree that the man should have been fired for displaying and discharging a firearm in a workplace where it was against company policy for him to even have it there.

[MasterOfNone]

I can't find it, I agree with you, if you want to show your buddy your new gun take him to the range. I think this guy is lucky he didn't end up in serious trouble.

Just to play a little 's advocate, where in the law does it allow for a person to fail to conceal his handgun at a range for the purpose of showing it to a friend or selling it?

I believe TPC 42.01 #7 would cover this.

(7) discharges a firearm in a public place other than a public road or a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code;

If you actually shoot the gun, this only means that it is not an offense under 42.01. But it does not provide an exception to 43.035.
Also, what if don't shoot the gun; you just show it to him or sell it to him?

[MasterOfNone]

masterofnone:

While engaged in sporting activity, there is no needed to conceal, you can open carry too. Moreover, while walking to and from range you can open carry too.

(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
.....(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

But if you don't shoot, instead just showing the gun or selling it, you are not engaged in a sporting activity.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

No one can point that out to you because it doesn't exist in law. Yes, by the strict interpretation that you are applying to the law, what he did was illegal.

Common sense says that there is a huge difference between pulling it out of a backpack in a breakroom at work because someone in the room asked to see it and openly carrying to the mall. I believe that the intent of the law was to prevent the latter instead of the former. It also serves to prevent someone from using the firearm as a tool for intimidation.

Yes, an overzealous prosecutor could try to make a case out of this, just as an overzealous DOJ can raid a guitar factory for buying fingerboard blanks. Only seeing black and white in the law with no grey quickly leads to situations where normally law abiding citizens are hauled of to the gulag, er jail, over acts that did not victimize anyone, didn't hurt anything, and only serve to punish those who the police/system choose to punish.

Again, I still agree that the man should have been fired for displaying and discharging a firearm in a workplace where it was against company policy for him to even have it there.

There is still no exceptions or defense to prosecution for taking it out of a backpack in a break room at work or OCing to a mall. So, both are illegal. It does not matter what the intent was. What matters is that it happened.

If you read TPC 46.035 it clearly states that if one carries under the authority of their CHL (CONCEALED Handgun License) and INTENTIONALLY fails to conceal it it's a crime. It does not say anywhere that it doesn't apply to one showing the gun in a break room but to one that is OCing or flashes his gun to intimidate. No, it says intentionally fails to conceal.

The biggest problem here is that lives were at stake. His violation of TPC 46.035 is what resulted in a ND. Had he followed the law this would not have happened in a crowded work environment.

[Beiruty]

How about claiming that your intent when you showed your handgun, was to engage in a training session (to the newbee), a sporting activity!
See Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. b(3)

While showing, most likely you will describe every small details of your shiny pistol, and proceed to field strip it and re-assemble it.

[paulhailes]

I can't find it, I agree with you, if you want to show your buddy your new gun take him to the range. I think this guy is lucky he didn't end up in serious trouble.

Just to play a little 's advocate, where in the law does it allow for a person to fail to conceal his handgun at a range for the purpose of showing it to a friend or selling it?

I believe TPC 42.01 #7 would cover this.

(7) discharges a firearm in a public place other than a public road or a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code;

If you actually shoot the gun, this only means that it is not an offense under 42.01. But it does not provide an exception to 43.035.
Also, what if don't shoot the gun; you just show it to him or sell it to him?

That's just silly talk, taking a gun to the range and not shooting it.

[Beiruty]

masterofnone:

While engaged in sporting activity, there is no needed to conceal, you can open carry too. Moreover, while walking to and from range you can open carry too.

(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
.....(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

But if you don't shoot, instead just showing the gun or selling it, you are not engaged in a sporting activity.

Not correct, It is well known that at Gun Show, everyone Is displaying firearms in public view. Many are carrying around the gun show a handgun, with no CHL. no need to hide it in a box. I read it is is the "view of the court" that Gun Shows are part of sporting activity. Training as well as dry firing a pistol is considered a sporting activity. In addition, you can strap your "piece" go to a range. or attend a competition match, open carry and do not shoot a single rd. You can be Range Officer or Match Director, or even a firearm insrtuctor etc...

[MasterOfNone]

masterofnone:

While engaged in sporting activity, there is no needed to conceal, you can open carry too. Moreover, while walking to and from range you can open carry too.

(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
.....(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

But if you don't shoot, instead just showing the gun or selling it, you are not engaged in a sporting activity.

Not correct, It is well known that at Gun Show, everyone Is displaying firearms in public view. Many are carrying around the gun show a handgun, with no CHL. no need to hide it in a box. I read it is is the "view of the court" that Gun Shows are part of sporting activity. Training as well as dry firing a pistol is considered a sporting activity. In addition, you can strap your "piece" go to a range. or attend a competition match, open carry and do not shoot a single rd. You can be Range Officer or Match Director, or even a firearm insrtuctor etc...

So if training is a sporting activity, and the CHLer in the OP was demonstrating his gun to the coworker, wouldn't 46.15(b)(3) apply?

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

So if training is a sporting activity, and the CHLer in the OP was demonstrating his gun to the coworker, wouldn't 46.15(b)(3) apply?

If you are asking if this would apply to the incident in the OP then your answer is no as he was not in violation of 46.02 but 46.035.

[speedsix]

...putting it as charitably as I can, being an old man who's handled and been around guns for over 50 years, the idiot had no business playing with his gun at work in a cluster of employees...he didn't know how to properly clear it, and it's a wonder that noone was hurt...at the very LEAST, I think an officer should have made a report of the incident, and filed a request to have his qualifications to have a CHL reviewed by the state...carrying a loaded gun is a right...and a privilige...and carries a HEAVY load of responsibility with it...which he handled poorly...he could be up on manslaughter, had the round killed someone...if he wanted to show his buddy his gun, they should have done it out in his car...not in a place of business with folks gathered round...the guy needs to start all over and learn to do it right...and I don't care much what anyone in Texas nor at all what anyone who DOESN'T live in Texas thinks of my opinion..."I'm sorry" doesn't call a bullet back...

[Beiruty]

So if training is a sporting activity, and the CHLer in the OP was demonstrating his gun to the coworker, wouldn't 46.15(b)(3) apply?

If you are asking if this would apply to the incident in the OP then your answer is no as he was not in violation of 46.02 but 46.035.

Not correct, again.

When you are engaged in sporting activity you do not need a CHL. 46.035 is for those who are carrying concealed and they need a CHL. Big difference. When you are hunting while having a CHL and can 100% open carry your pistol, no one will ever charge you with 46.035, since you do not need a CHL to hunt and yo can open carry while hunting.

Same, I can walk to the range tomorrow (I will be DPS) while open carry, I will be open carry at the range 100% of the time. Will I be in violation of 46.035? You bet, but 46.035 does not apply when no CHL is needed, especially at the range. Another example. At the CHL school, a Police Officer was training us and showing us all kind of pistols, etc... The class was conducted in a rented room in a Medical Office.

[MasterOfNone]

So if training is a sporting activity, and the CHLer in the OP was demonstrating his gun to the coworker, wouldn't 46.15(b)(3) apply?

If you are asking if this would apply to the incident in the OP then your answer is no as he was not in violation of 46.02 but 46.035.

The point I am trying to clarify is: if exposing a gun to show it to a coworker is illegal in the office, what law makes it legal to do the same thing at a range (without shooting)?

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

So if training is a sporting activity, and the CHLer in the OP was demonstrating his gun to the coworker, wouldn't 46.15(b)(3) apply?

Not correct.

If you are asking if this would apply to the incident in the OP then your answer is no as he was not in violation of 46.02 but 46.035.

When you are engaged in sporting activity you do not need a CHL. 46.035 is for those who are carrying concealed and they need a CHL. Big difference. When you are hunting while having a CHL and do open carry your pistol, no one will ever charge you with 46.035, since you do not need a CHL to hunt and yo can open carry while hunting.

Yes, I understand this. However, he was carrying under the authority of his CHL and therefore in violation of 46.035.

Lets say he wasn't carrying under the authority of his CHL and just had his gun with him. Then he would be in violation of 46.02 and 46.15(b)(3) would still not apply as the "training" was not the purpose for having the gun with him that day as it was not until his coworker asked to see it did he get it out and "train" him (the training was not a planned event/course/class but a coincidental opportunity; yes I understand that 46.15(b)(3) does not state that the "training" must be planned but if that were not the case then there would be no 46.02).