Need some advice on a ticket

[karl]

Similar thing happened to me in Harris County. Went to the courtroom for the pretrial consultation with the ADA and I had to choose one of three options: Guilty, Deferred Adjudication, or Trial. I was told after this decision those options would not again be available to me.

I wasn't speeding so I chose trial and hired a lawyer. ADA dismissed my case only because my lawyer had connections and talked her into it. I honestly think I would have lost if the case was taken before a jury. It's one of those things that bugs me about traffic stops. Guilt is almost exclusively assumed and there are few ways to prove innocence.

[Beiruty]

How come a lawyer can talk the ADA to dissmiss a case? That is corruption if you can't do the same without a lawyer. My speeding tickets so far were deferred adjudication and in NH you pay $0 while on probation. In TX, you get to pay the fine and court fees and attend the Defensive driving course to get rid of the ticket.

[apostate]

How come a lawyer can talk the ADA to dissmiss a case? That is corruption if you can't do the same without a lawyer.

You're welcome to represent yourself. Some people are more persuasive than others. C'est la vie.

[pcgizzmo]

I think I'm going to ask for a trial after reading the responses here I know it's easier to pay the ticket and in every ticket I have gotten that's exactly what I did but this one bugs me. I know I wasn't going the speed he said I was going. The more I think about it I'm sure he had a radar issue. I'm going to ask for a jury trial and ask for radar calibration records. I'm also going to inquire on whether he did whatever he needed to go from setting still to a moving radar. Someone mentioned they have to change the mode or something. If I lose I'll pay but at least I'll have the satisfaction of knowing I didn't take it lying down.

[scgstuff]

If I lose I'll pay but at least I'll have the satisfaction of knowing I didn't take it lying down.

I think once it goes to court, additional costs are taked on for court fees, so be ready for additional charges. Plus, I believe (not positive) the judge can increase/decrease the penalty as he/she sees fit, so don't make the judge mad.

[steveincowtown]

How come a lawyer can talk the ADA to dissmiss a case? That is corruption if you can't do the same without a lawyer.

I agree....but the truth is 99.9% of all judges were lawyers before they were judges. The other dirty secret is that much like a regular workplace, Judges and the Lawyers who work cases the most in their courts do become friendly acquaintances. A lawyer friend of mine got me off a ticket in Richmond, VA at 11AM in the morning, and we were having lunch with the Judge at the local country club at 12:15.

To the OP. Good for you...flex your rights!

[gigag04]

If it was a motors cop, a lot of them are trained in accident recon which is extremely physics intensive.

Even 10 year old K band systems have a "fast" window. Thus you get a return from the largest radar signature and the fastest moving sig. Any cop worth his salt can accurately estimate a speed and confirm it with a glance at the radar.

I'd go for deferred adj but you can always try hiring a lawyer.

[fishman]

If your going to trial you might want to ask if the LEO is radar certified. He may not be.

[The Annoyed Man]

Back in the day (1982 or so) I was clocked by a LEO in well-known Central Texas speed trap town doing 75 mph through town in my beat up Bronco II. I knew about the town and the speed trap and will swear on a stack of bibles that I wasn't doing over 40mph. As a matter of fact, to get that beater to do 75mph I'd have to drive it off a cliff. I asked the officer if he didn't take the setting off of "stationary" to "moving" so that he actually got our closing speed. He replied that he didn't have to show me his radar gun.

This got my really pi... mad, so I asked for a jury trial. Long story short, I got a letter about 30 days prior to the trial date saying that the charges were dropped because the officer no longer worked for that dept. and they had no witness on their side.

I find that part curious. In California, no matter who stops you, if you got picked up by radar, you have the right to see the radar gun with your speed displayed on it, and I'm pretty sure they have to offer to show it to you. Does Texas not have such a requirement?

[KaiserB]

I am not an LEO (although a big fan of those who are), but asking on officer how to successfully undo a ticket given by another officer is somewhat akin to asking your sister in law the best way to get away with cheating on your wife.


I cannot picture any situation where you could appear in front of a Judge and argue against an Officer successfully that even though you were speeding, you weren't going as fast as he thought.

Almost every city in Texas has Deferred Disposition. Here is a ling to Keller's website on the subject:

http://www.cityofkeller.com/index.aspx?page=461" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you qualify, it keeps the ticket of your insurance and off your driving record.

This is simple. Can you make the case that it is not possible for your car/truck to accelerate to 48MPH in the space given? For example taking off from a stop sign and going 250' a car may only get up to 35 MPH not 48MPH as charged. Thus you would NOT be guilty of 48MPH and you are not required to admit to another speed to allege you were going slower than 48 MPH

Not to be a smart donkey, but I think the odds of engaging a LEO and a Judge in an argumentative conversation about Physics, for a traffic ticket, and absent a Attorney by your side are near slim.

It is not an argument it is a statement of the facts, and yes it has worked in court in the past. It is not an argument to state:

I drive a 2002 Toyota Corolla which accelerates at 5MPH per second (or whatever the manufacturers figure is).
I was clocked at the alleged speed of 48 MPH 65' from the stop sign.
The maximum speed a 2002 Corolla could have done at the end of 65' is ~18 MPH. If the car accelerates at 7.3 FPS^2, the maximum speed on could reach in 4 seconds duration 73' from a stop is 20 MPH.

[steveincowtown]

I am not an LEO (although a big fan of those who are), but asking on officer how to successfully undo a ticket given by another officer is somewhat akin to asking your sister in law the best way to get away with cheating on your wife.


I cannot picture any situation where you could appear in front of a Judge and argue against an Officer successfully that even though you were speeding, you weren't going as fast as he thought.

Almost every city in Texas has Deferred Disposition. Here is a ling to Keller's website on the subject:

http://www.cityofkeller.com/index.aspx?page=461" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you qualify, it keeps the ticket of your insurance and off your driving record.

This is simple. Can you make the case that it is not possible for your car/truck to accelerate to 48MPH in the space given? For example taking off from a stop sign and going 250' a car may only get up to 35 MPH not 48MPH as charged. Thus you would NOT be guilty of 48MPH and you are not required to admit to another speed to allege you were going slower than 48 MPH

Not to be a smart donkey, but I think the odds of engaging a LEO and a Judge in an argumentative conversation about Physics, for a traffic ticket, and absent a Attorney by your side are near slim.

It is not an argument it is a statement of the facts, and yes it has worked in court in the past. It is not an argument to state:

I drive a 2002 Toyota Corolla which accelerates at 5MPH per second (or whatever the manufacturers figure is).
I was clocked at the alleged speed of 48 MPH 65' from the stop sign.
The maximum speed a 2002 Corolla could have done at the end of 65' is ~18 MPH. If the car accelerates at 7.3 FPS^2, the maximum speed on could reach in 4 seconds duration 73' from a stop is 20 MPH.

Fair enough, but who answers these questions:

Who makes the call on how far you were from the stop sign? You or the cop?

Where would you find the evidence to support how quickly your car accelerates?

How would you prove that you have never done anything to you car to change it acceleration curve (does it have the stock air filter, has the muffler ever been changed, what kind of spark plugs did you use)?

What background do you have that allows you to judge distances? Did you measure it that day? Officer "X" has been more than likely had extensive training on traffic accident investigation and is an expert at identifying and judging spaces between moving and stationary objects?

What type of gas were you using on the day of the ticket? Reg or High Test?

etc., etc.

That being said if you were clocked doing 200 MPH in your 2002 Corolla, I think you might be able to come up with a valid argument about why that is just not plausible.

[SlickTX]

I think I'm going to ask for a trial after reading the responses here I know it's easier to pay the ticket and in every ticket I have gotten that's exactly what I did but this one bugs me. I know I wasn't going the speed he said I was going. The more I think about it I'm sure he had a radar issue. I'm going to ask for a jury trial and ask for radar calibration records. I'm also going to inquire on whether he did whatever he needed to go from setting still to a moving radar. Someone mentioned they have to change the mode or something. If I lose I'll pay but at least I'll have the satisfaction of knowing I didn't take it lying down.

The switching of modes (I think) was required back in the day. I don't know if the newer radars adapt automatically or not.

On top of the calibration records I'd ask about the officer's training history on that radar unit. How often he actually trained vs. the recommended training intervals. Has he ever had a false reading. How could he be sure that this time its wasn't false. Did he track other traffic at the same time. What did the radar say about those. You get the idea.

[SlickTX]

Back in the day (1982 or so) I was clocked by a LEO in well-known Central Texas speed trap town doing 75 mph through town in my beat up Bronco II. I knew about the town and the speed trap and will swear on a stack of bibles that I wasn't doing over 40mph. As a matter of fact, to get that beater to do 75mph I'd have to drive it off a cliff. I asked the officer if he didn't take the setting off of "stationary" to "moving" so that he actually got our closing speed. He replied that he didn't have to show me his radar gun.

This got my really pi... mad, so I asked for a jury trial. Long story short, I got a letter about 30 days prior to the trial date saying that the charges were dropped because the officer no longer worked for that dept. and they had no witness on their side.

I find that part curious. In California, no matter who stops you, if you got picked up by radar, you have the right to see the radar gun with your speed displayed on it, and I'm pretty sure they have to offer to show it to you. Does Texas not have such a requirement?

I don't know what the law says, that's what the officer told me. Of course, it looks like he had a very flexible view of the law anyway.

[tacticool]

I am not an LEO (although a big fan of those who are), but asking on officer how to successfully undo a ticket given by another officer is somewhat akin to asking your sister in law the best way to get away with cheating on your wife.

He says he was ticketed for 48 but wasn't going that fast, so it's more like asking your sister what to say to your wife if she accuses you of cheating when you didn't do it.

[steveincowtown]

I am not an LEO (although a big fan of those who are), but asking on officer how to successfully undo a ticket given by another officer is somewhat akin to asking your sister in law the best way to get away with cheating on your wife.

He says he was ticketed for 48 but wasn't going that fast, so it's more like asking your sister what to say to your wife if she accuses you of cheating when you didn't do it.

Good point!

The OP did admit he thought he was going fast, just not 48. So it really is actually like asking you sister what to say to your wife is she accuses you of infidelity, but you know that you only kissed the other woman.