Military Police

[johnson0317]

Did not think that was your intention...I know the mind of a nurse tends to be wired a little differently, and see things from many different angles.

[E.Marquez]

No. The shooter is a Field Grade Officer, Major. (I say "is", as he hasn't been found guilty and stripped of his rank yet). The military is a Hierarchy, officers especially those of Field Grade are given great leeway. This is just a knee jerk reaction to the shooting by the military to show the outside world, especially those who believe that gun registration prevents crime, that they, the military, is quick to respond to prevent another mass shooting. One can still register their weapons, carry on post as if going to the range and detour to another location. No one follows you to insure you arrive at the range. Again just knee jerk as, I feel, all gun carry retardation does. Gun free zones are free fire zones for mass shooters, registration only retards those who follow the law and etc. These regulations, again, are aimed at the enlisted ranks. Commanders, usually in the rank of Captain, can't tell someone of higher rank to follow the regulation, such as our Major. My take with over 30 years of Army service.

I admit to not having 30 years of service, but I would dispute that you cannot tell someone of higher rank to follow any particular regulation. You can and are expected to. However, discretion is also highly valued in the Armed Forces.

You are right, one should follow regulation no matter one's rank. I was perhaps a bit over dramatic. What I was wanting to convey was, that here on Fort Hood if you are in the rank of SFC and above you self register. FH Reg 190-11 states that Soldiers in the rank of Staff Sergeant and below are required to obtain approval from the unit commander. That Newly assigned Soldiers (SSG and below) in possession of assignment orders may receive a temporary weapons registration (not to exceed 5 working days) pending Commander’s approval. Soldiers (SSG and below) that purchase a firearm (on weekends and
holidays) may receive a temporary weapons registration (not to exceed 3 working days) pending Commander’s approval. So as you can see/read what through registration would have prevented a Field Grade Officer from not registering his weapons? There are no checks. Also getting away from weapons, a junior grade soldier cannot tell a senior grade individual to adhere to regulation, or maybe to refrase this, the senior leader does not have to take the suggestion from the junior grade, unless it is considered an illegal order, such as the killing of prisoners, theft of some properties, disobeying ROE and etc. A private can tell a senior grade that he/she must adhere to a certain regulation, but if they do not, the private can't do anything to that individual to force compliance. (I am not talking about Military L.E.) While on the other hand, if the senior grade individual, especially a field grade, tells a private they must comply with regulation and the private does not, that private can be prosecuted for disobeying a lawful order. If a Captain tells a Major to register his/her weapons, that Major can tell that Captain to bump off. The Major perhaps can be prosecuted for not registering by the Senior Commander, but nothing will occur to him/her, through the UCMJ, for telling the Captain no. In the Military, respect only goes up, IAW the UCMJ. There are several other nuances, i.e. cannot curse a subordinate and etc, but that is the nature of the Military. Majors can order Captains, Captains cannot order Majors. This explanation is also not fully taking in consideration of all nuances, i.e. the Major can be under arrest, the Captain can be placed in charge of the Major through UCMJ procedings and etc. But for the normal day to day activities of the Military this is the case. As a junior grade soldier you better have your act fully together before you castigate a senior grade to comply with a particular regulation.

The letter of what you have written is correct

But lets take a look at three points.

Position of authority very much does allow for a junior rank Soldier to be in direct control of a senior rank soldier. LE, Guard duty, commanders designated representative, a staff position at a higher head quarters, or within a larger head quarters.... and many other examples..yes the authority does come from the Officer in charge,,, but once the authority is given.. it's still there. And that does not even address general military authority. General military authority originates in oaths of office and enlistment, law, rank structure, traditions, and regulations. This broad-based authority allows leaders to take appropriate corrective actions whenever a member of any armed service, anywhere, commits an act involving a breach of good order or discipline and Army Regulation 600-20, Army Command Policy, states specifically, giving commissioned, warrant, and noncommissioned officers authority to "quell all quarrels, frays, and disorders among persons subject to military law." The purpose of this authority is to maintain good order and discipline.

Attitude of the chain of command has a lot to do with that as well. I have been lucky… if you listen to others complaints from units I've never been in..(some right here in this forum) there are chain of command out there that do not enforce discipline, nor back an NCO's position of authority, or any soldiers regardless of rank, position of authority.

Registration is REQUIRED by ALL who enter FT Hood, PRIOR to bringing the weapon on post. Throwing in who must or must not further sign the paperwork is a side note.
The POINT is all MUST register if you want to bring a firearm on post, and NO criminal intent on not obeying the law on murder, rape, robbery is going to suddenly start obeying the regulation for On post registration. THAT is why on post registration fails on all accounts. In my opinion

As far as a enlisted or junior rank officer correcting a senor ranking person. Happens every day, and any NCO that is not capable of professionally enforcing that level of discipline needs more training and mentorship, or a administrative discharge. Im happy to offer the first two, and have effected the latter more then once.

I can count on one hand the times I have told an officer to correct, stop, or do what I directed backed up with the policy or regulation at hand..And they refused based on rank alone. I can count on that same hand the same number of fingers where that officer did what I directed when a fellow officer senior in rank either observed the conversation or stepped in on their own, OR I brought that other officer into the situation. I admit, pick your battles and yes of course make sure your right.. But if you’re not sure in your position, why would you be making the correction an anyone, regardless of rank

Reality is, in general an NCO senior to another Soldier making the correction is more likely to blow off a correction from the junior Soldier then ANY officer when corrected by that same junior Soldier. I LOVE to be witness to those situations.. Right is right.... be a man (gender unspecific really) do the right thing because it's right. I dislike when a member of my NCO CORPS acts a fool.

DEB, where do you work on hood? What unit are you in? :thumbs2. Nurse.. Hosp? If you work in the ER,, you likely have seen the brass Name plate put in place for my Son and I...due to copious visits for sport and motocross induced events.

[Purplehood]

No. The shooter is a Field Grade Officer, Major. (I say "is", as he hasn't been found guilty and stripped of his rank yet). The military is a Hierarchy, officers especially those of Field Grade are given great leeway. This is just a knee jerk reaction to the shooting by the military to show the outside world, especially those who believe that gun registration prevents crime, that they, the military, is quick to respond to prevent another mass shooting. One can still register their weapons, carry on post as if going to the range and detour to another location. No one follows you to insure you arrive at the range. Again just knee jerk as, I feel, all gun carry retardation does. Gun free zones are free fire zones for mass shooters, registration only retards those who follow the law and etc. These regulations, again, are aimed at the enlisted ranks. Commanders, usually in the rank of Captain, can't tell someone of higher rank to follow the regulation, such as our Major. My take with over 30 years of Army service.

I admit to not having 30 years of service, but I would dispute that you cannot tell someone of higher rank to follow any particular regulation. You can and are expected to. However, discretion is also highly valued in the Armed Forces.

You are right, one should follow regulation no matter one's rank. I was perhaps a bit over dramatic. What I was wanting to convey was, that here on Fort Hood if you are in the rank of SFC and above you self register. FH Reg 190-11 states that Soldiers in the rank of Staff Sergeant and below are required to obtain approval from the unit commander. That Newly assigned Soldiers (SSG and below) in possession of assignment orders may receive a temporary weapons registration (not to exceed 5 working days) pending Commander’s approval. Soldiers (SSG and below) that purchase a firearm (on weekends and
holidays) may receive a temporary weapons registration (not to exceed 3 working days) pending Commander’s approval. So as you can see/read what through registration would have prevented a Field Grade Officer from not registering his weapons? There are no checks. Also getting away from weapons, a junior grade soldier cannot tell a senior grade individual to adhere to regulation, or maybe to refrase this, the senior leader does not have to take the suggestion from the junior grade, unless it is considered an illegal order, such as the killing of prisoners, theft of some properties, disobeying ROE and etc. A private can tell a senior grade that he/she must adhere to a certain regulation, but if they do not, the private can't do anything to that individual to force compliance. (I am not talking about Military L.E.) While on the other hand, if the senior grade individual, especially a field grade, tells a private they must comply with regulation and the private does not, that private can be prosecuted for disobeying a lawful order. If a Captain tells a Major to register his/her weapons, that Major can tell that Captain to bump off. The Major perhaps can be prosecuted for not registering by the Senior Commander, but nothing will occur to him/her, through the UCMJ, for telling the Captain no. In the Military, respect only goes up, IAW the UCMJ. There are several other nuances, i.e. cannot curse a subordinate and etc, but that is the nature of the Military. Majors can order Captains, Captains cannot order Majors. This explanation is also not fully taking in consideration of all nuances, i.e. the Major can be under arrest, the Captain can be placed in charge of the Major through UCMJ procedings and etc. But for the normal day to day activities of the Military this is the case. As a junior grade soldier you better have your act fully together before you castigate a senior grade to comply with a particular regulation.

I particularly agree with your last sentence.

[DEB]

...Reality is, in general an NCO senior to another Soldier making the correction is more likely to blow off a correction from the junior Soldier then ANY officer when corrected by that same junior Soldier. I LOVE to be witness to those situations.. Right is right.... be a man (gender unspecific really) do the right thing because it's right. I dislike when a member of my NCO CORPS acts a fool.

DEB, where do you work on hood? What unit are you in? :thumbs2. Nurse.. Hosp? If you work in the ER,, you likely have seen the brass Name plate put in place for my Son and I...due to copious visits for sport and motocross induced events. [/quote]

A heck of a better and more copious explanation than I could give SGM. I work at DES Physical Security as a Physical Security Specialist. Will be conducting your AA&E inspections, can't wait to see you get back, so that my work load can be increased...

[RockingRook]

How did you legally get onto the base with your CHL? I thought most military bases are off-limits to CHL.

I'm pretty sure you can have a CHL and be on a military base. You just can't actually carry.

No sir, ,not correct, Fast way to see cuffs on you and a long day ahead

A CHL is not a gun. It is a piece of plastic. The sign at the entrance to any Base or Post says No firearms are allowed.

I go to a Base a couple times a week and I am fine as long as I do not have a firearm in my car or on my person. If I am stopped by an
MP or AP I will show him my TDL since I am not carrying. If they run it and see the CHL I am legal. On the other hand if I am stopped
off the Base or Post by an LEO I will show him the TDL and my CHL if I am carrying or not.

To think that I am no longer allowed on Base because I got a CHL seems funny to me.

Chuck

[E.Marquez]

How did you legally get onto the base with your CHL? I thought most military bases are off-limits to CHL.

I'm pretty sure you can have a CHL and be on a military base. You just can't actually carry.

No sir, ,not correct, Fast way to see cuffs on you and a long day ahead

A CHL is not a gun. It is a piece of plastic. The sign at the entrance to any Base or Post says No firearms are allowed.

I go to a Base a couple times a week and I am fine as long as I do not have a firearm in my car or on my person. If I am stopped by an
MP or AP I will show him my TDL since I am not carrying. If they run it and see the CHL I am legal. On the other hand if I am stopped
off the Base or Post by an LEO I will show him the TDL and my CHL if I am carrying or not.

To think that I am no longer allowed on Base because I got a CHL seems funny to me.

Chuck

Hello post from that past that was misunderstood, corrected long ago and brought back up....

Yes, when i responded I mis read the post, I read it to say.. the poster had a gun and a CHL, was bringing it on post, just not carried on his person (ie gun in console or under-seat, or what ever) I never said, intended to say or imply bringing a piece of PLASTIC on post was against the regulations and would result in arrest.

All better now


PLASTIC = GOOD, any time you want
GUN = without PRE registration AND declaration at the gate AND Justification AND following the storage requirements precisely AND obeying the rules for where you are allowed to go gets you in to hot water.