Post Office Law Suit to Repeal Carry Rule

[Dave2]

ELB wrote:

Until about four years ago the US Postal Service was putting into the US Treasury from postage collected One Billion dollars a year. That's a Billion dollars the tax payer didn't have to be taxed. Congress mandated the US Postal Service prefund retirement to the tune of 23 Billion dollars a year until a limit of about 75 billion was reached. Name one other company, entity, or organization that could make a profit under those conditions. If that mandate was removed the US Postal Service would immediately become profitable again. The Postal Service is a bloated beaurecratic system and does need to be trimmed but try to send written communications from any other organization for .43 cents to McCarthy, Alaska from any other part of the US for that cost.

Right, but you ignored the meat of his post, which is that the only reason they have any success at all is because the federal government has made it illegal for other companies to do what they do.

FedEx can't compete on delivering mail to your mailbox for .43 cents because it is against the law for them to even try.

What? How? They can charge whatever they want.

Fedex is not legally allowed to touch your mailbox. Period.

What if I set out a "Private Delivery Company" box? And what about those doors with slots in them? Can they push stuff through those?

[sjfcontrol]

As I recall, nobody can handle "first class mail" except the USPS. UPS and Fedex handle "packages".

If the "slot" says "U.S. Mail" on it, its a mailbox -- and can only be used by USPS.

[boba]

If it's not Federal anymore does that mean the CFR anti-2A rules no longer apply?

[koolaid]

What if I set out a "Private Delivery Company" box? And what about those doors with slots in them? Can they push stuff through those?

Private Express Statutes.

Short answer: no. In 1979 they decided to allow for "emergency" deliveries of letters by private carriers, but that is pretty much it. It is illegal.

[SQLGeek]

What is ironic to me is that mail is delievered to my neighborhood by a private contractor in his private van. Talk about blurring the line. What is not ironic is that he is friendlier than many other postal workers I've encountered and he goes above and beyond what is required in ensuring we get our packages.

[Dave2]

What if I set out a "Private Delivery Company" box? And what about those doors with slots in them? Can they push stuff through those?

Private Express Statutes.

Short answer: no. In 1979 they decided to allow for "emergency" deliveries of letters by private carriers, but that is pretty much it. It is illegal.

That really is outrageous.

I think I might start a list of crappy laws and offer my vote to whomever can make it all legal again.

[OldSchool]

What if I set out a "Private Delivery Company" box? And what about those doors with slots in them? Can they push stuff through those?

Private Express Statutes.

Short answer: no. In 1979 they decided to allow for "emergency" deliveries of letters by private carriers, but that is pretty much it. It is illegal.

That really is outrageous.

I think I might start a list of crappy laws and offer my vote to whomever can make it all legal again.

It's been that way for a very long time, for very good reasons. Security of the mail has always been a large concern, and that's why mail tampering is a Federal offense.

There was a time when we had our mail delivered to a general store (yeah, it's been a while, and that general store was the entire town!), so we knew the people personally. Mostly, though, our mail was driven many miles out of town. Very reliable; it was extremely rare for anything to be lost or tampered with. RFD was a great thing.

Right or wrong, I really cannot bring myself to the level of trust with the brown or white trucks that I had with the red, white and blue trucks, even when I can't even trust the local P.O. in the city these days, since we've had more important-type mail "lost" there than we ever did with the mail carriers. Heck, we've even had problems with the white truck with our surplus ammo!

Since it's since been given to a "private" concern (except when they want special consideration), and the quality of service has plummeted, it's hard to know what to do about it. I can see private mail delivery becoming like a cross between recycling and power services: One box for each type of mail, bought only from the vendor, and you have to change carriers when you move, and billing for delivery (yeah, what would stop them from charging the receiver for the "service"?) would be based on the amount delivered....

There really is no easy answer, I think.

[Dave2]

What if I set out a "Private Delivery Company" box? And what about those doors with slots in them? Can they push stuff through those?

Private Express Statutes.

Short answer: no. In 1979 they decided to allow for "emergency" deliveries of letters by private carriers, but that is pretty much it. It is illegal.

That really is outrageous.

I think I might start a list of crappy laws and offer my vote to whomever can make it all legal again.

It's been that way for a very long time, for very good reasons. Security of the mail has always been a large concern, and that's why mail tampering is a Federal offense.

I have no problem with mail tampering remaining illegal (in fact I'd prefer it did stay that way), but there's really nothing to stop it from going on right now. Most people work during the day, so they probably won't be rushing out to get their mail as it's delivered. You could probably count on nobody seeing what you're doing for the same reason.

[sjfcontrol]

Man! You're really overthinking it. Now that email is good for almost everything, the USPS delivers almost nothing but junk mail. Just kill the USPS and let private industry deliver whatever's left. No more junk. And the extra cost of what's left is motivation to deliver everything possible electronically.

[Dave2]

Man! You're really overthinking it. Now that email is good for almost everything, the USPS delivers almost nothing but junk mail. Just kill the USPS and let private industry deliver whatever's left. No more junk. And the extra cost of what's left is motivation to deliver everything possible electronically.

Works for me, but not for a friend of mine who hates computers. It once took about six months for him to receive an email I'd sent him. He'd only turned on his computer a couple times to print a few things out, and hadn't thought to check his email (not that it would've mattered if he had... IIRC he didn't have any internet service for a good chunk of that).

Plus, mail service is paid for by the postage. Would you really want to raise taxes to cover the costs of the mandatory internet service?

[OldSchool]

Man! You're really overthinking it. Now that email is good for almost everything, the USPS delivers almost nothing but junk mail. Just kill the USPS and let private industry deliver whatever's left. No more junk. And the extra cost of what's left is motivation to deliver everything possible electronically.

Email has a very expensive (and increasing) cost of ownership. More and more people, even if technologically proficient, are finding they have to choose between an Internet service and paying the rent. Public libraries are not the answer for a significant increase in demand. Requiring citizens to purchase those necessities is simply an additional burden, when there is an adequate alternative in 1st class mail.

And, there are still people who prefer to write by hand, as well as do arithmetic without a calculator!

And, no, 4th class mail will not cease just because someone else is carrying it (the myth of the magic of advertising still remains). However, I agree that 4th class mail is likely not paying their share of the cost.

[sjfcontrol]

4th class mail WILL disappear if the sender needs to pay UPS rates to send it! we are paying the telcos for universal service, and low- end computers are quite inexpensive- and decreasing in price.

[OldSchool]

4th class mail WILL disappear if the sender needs to pay UPS rates to send it! we are paying the telcos for universal service, and low- end computers are quite inexpensive- and decreasing in price.

Not inexpensive for everyone, sorry, no. And plastic is the devil that got us into this mess. Also, remember where the the computers are made, and whose currency is currently leading in the race to the bottom.

The telcos are not giving their bandwidth away for free. Actually, tiered pricing is already being implemented as we type, and its purpose is not to decrease pricing. Note that Netflix is already seeing the light -- of the train coming down the track toward them; they are finally being billed for their formerly "free" bandwidth.

Many people are hurting, bad, and the number is increasing by the week, and it will not get better in the near future. We must not cavalierly remove a staple of life from those who are not well off, and 1st class mail is still a staple for most of us.

As for 4th class mail, the advertisers will simply cut the same deals with UPS that they cut with USPS. They're here to stay.

ETA: Good grief, I forgot one of the biggest problems! Remember privacy? There is no such thing with the Internet. No matter what kind of security (and what fraction of folks send secure email -- not even most agencies of the government), everything sent by Internet is subject to interception due to the number of hops between sender and receiver. Nothing private must ever be sent by email. Good luck with that PSK....

[sjfcontrol]

4th class mail WILL disappear if the sender needs to pay UPS rates to send it! we are paying the telcos for universal service, and low- end computers are quite inexpensive- and decreasing in price.

Not inexpensive for everyone, sorry, no. And plastic is the devil that got us into this mess. Also, remember where the the computers are made, and whose currency is currently leading in the race to the bottom.

The telcos are not giving their bandwidth away for free. Actually, tiered pricing is already being implemented as we type, and its purpose is not to decrease pricing. Note that Netflix is already seeing the light -- of the train coming down the track toward them; they are finally being billed for their formerly "free" bandwidth.

Many people are hurting, bad, and the number is increasing by the week, and it will not get better in the near future. We must not cavalierly remove a staple of life from those who are not well off, and 1st class mail is still a staple for most of us.

As for 4th class mail, the advertisers will simply cut the same deals with UPS that they cut with USPS. They're here to stay.

ETA: Good grief, I forgot one of the biggest problems! Remember privacy? There is no such thing with the Internet. No matter what kind of security (and what fraction of folks send secure email -- not even most agencies of the government), everything sent by Internet is subject to interception due to the number of hops between sender and receiver. Nothing private must ever be sent by email. Good luck with that PSK....

Nonsense. They said the same things when moving from horse drawn buggies to the automobile. (People won't be able to afford all that gasoline, and oats are cheap!) It's time to get rid of the "Pony Express", and move into the 21st century -- or at least the 20th. Will there be problems? Yes, but they'er handleable. Not an attack, but your handle is very appropriate. (Umm, the devil plastic??)

[SQLGeek]

(Umm, the devil plastic??)

Credit cards... (not CHLs).