Plano School District has 30.06 posted parking lots

[speedsix]

...good plan, you guys...getting a decision/commitment of position in writing is important in that it stops he said-she said and denial later on...we can make a difference if we put out the effort...sometimes...

[Photoman]

You can be arrested for anything. If you're that afraid of getting arrested for something that isn't illegal but a LEO doesn't like, I'd suggest you not carry a gun.

Finally... Something in this thread that makes some sense.

[doc.lonestar]

If the school has placed the 30.06 sign at the entrance of the school parking lot then you cannot enter into the parking lot - end of story. If you feel there is an issue with this then you can take it up with the school board (since they approved its location) and argue our case. If they decide not to remove the sign then you will be in violation every time you enter the parking lot to pick up your child - end of story.

Some food for thought - I was shocked to learn this:

Lets say you are sitting at a local all you can eat pizza place - you have been there with your family for 2 hours (making a point) - when a school bus loaded with kids pulls up and out pour 30 kids on a field trip. If you are carrying - you must remove your ccw immediately or you are in violation.

You read this right folks - even if you are there for 2 hours prior to them showing up - you are in violation for not leaving to lock up you firearm.

Does this make any more sense than a 30.06 sign blocking the entrance to pick up a child? No, but the law is the law.

[sjfcontrol]

The 30.06 sign only has relevance if the posting party has the authority to post it. A public school, being a governmental body, does not. So your statement about it being the "end of story" is not correct.

Also, it has been argued by Charles Cotton, that the law regarding carrying at a school activity, only applies if the activity is on school property. Therefore that statement of yours is also arguable.

I can't argue, however, about your statement that the law is the law. Its just more nuanced than you have made it out to be.

[i8godzilla]

If the school has placed the 30.06 sign at the entrance of the school parking lot then you cannot enter into the parking lot - end of story. If you feel there is an issue with this then you can take it up with the school board (since they approved its location) and argue our case. If they decide not to remove the sign then you will be in violation every time you enter the parking lot to pick up your child - end of story.

Might be end of story for you, however, I disagree. Please cite the legal basis for your conclusion.

Some food for thought - I was shocked to learn this:

Lets say you are sitting at a local all you can eat pizza place - you have been there with your family for 2 hours (making a point) - when a school bus loaded with kids pulls up and out pour 30 kids on a field trip. If you are carrying - you must remove your ccw immediately or you are in violation.

You read this right folks - even if you are there for 2 hours prior to them showing up - you are in violation for not leaving to lock up you firearm.

Under this assumption you have already violated the law without having the opportunity to leave. Again, I disagree.

Does this make any more sense than a 30.06 sign blocking the entrance to pick up a child? No, but the law is the law.

My comments.

The Plano ISD is a government body. There are restrictions to their posting a LEGALLY ENFORCEABLE 30.06 sign. Just because they have posted them does not make them enforceable. You make take the ride but I highly doubt there will be any attempt at prosecution. (IANAL / YMMV / all that other stuff.)

[rm9792]

If the school has placed the 30.06 sign at the entrance of the school parking lot then you cannot enter into the parking lot - end of story. If you feel there is an issue with this then you can take it up with the school board (since they approved its location) and argue our case. If they decide not to remove the sign then you will be in violation every time you enter the parking lot to pick up your child - end of story.

Some food for thought - I was shocked to learn this:

Lets say you are sitting at a local all you can eat pizza place - you have been there with your family for 2 hours (making a point) - when a school bus loaded with kids pulls up and out pour 30 kids on a field trip. If you are carrying - you must remove your ccw immediately or you are in violation.

You read this right folks - even if you are there for 2 hours prior to them showing up - you are in violation for not leaving to lock up you firearm.

Does this make any more sense than a 30.06 sign blocking the entrance to pick up a child? No, but the law is the law.

You learned wrong. You do not have to leave the restaraunt, museum, library, etc simply because a school group shows up. Also, the school can not legally post so the sign is unenforceable but you might take a ride. You will win in court though but doubt it will ever get to court.

[dicion]

If the school has placed the 30.06 sign at the entrance of the school parking lot then you cannot enter into the parking lot - end of story. If you feel there is an issue with this then you can take it up with the school board (since they approved its location) and argue our case. If they decide not to remove the sign then you will be in violation every time you enter the parking lot to pick up your child - end of story.

Some food for thought - I was shocked to learn this:

Lets say you are sitting at a local all you can eat pizza place - you have been there with your family for 2 hours (making a point) - when a school bus loaded with kids pulls up and out pour 30 kids on a field trip. If you are carrying - you must remove your ccw immediately or you are in violation.

You read this right folks - even if you are there for 2 hours prior to them showing up - you are in violation for not leaving to lock up you firearm.

Does this make any more sense than a 30.06 sign blocking the entrance to pick up a child? No, but the law is the law.

Oh Geez.. not this again.. Just as I get back to the forums...

Luckily, I have these ever trusty links handy still!

Why a school event, NOT on school property, does NOT affect your ability to carry
As Charles says, there is no case law on this item, probably because NOONE HAS EVER BEEN ARRESTED for it.
I carry at locations that are otherwise not off-limits, with school functions going on all the time. Was just at the Houston Museum of Fine Art the other week, and there were kids there on a field trip. Not worried ;)

Parking Lots and 30.06

Please take the time to read all of the above. They are written by Charles, our local Legal Expert, and Mr. Steve Rothstein, our local Officer-in-the-know ;) You won't find any better advice from anyone.

Edit: this comes up wayyyyy too often. I'm putting these links in my signature XD

[sjfcontrol]

Need to have a sticky for these

[rm9792]

We all had to get the bad advice flushed out of our heads at some time. Doc got some bad advice, possibly in class, and he simply needs to be shown the way. We do have the advantage of legislators, lawyers and LEO on our board that others dont.

[pbwalker]

If the school has placed the 30.06 sign at the entrance of the school parking lot then you cannot enter into the parking lot - end of story. If you feel there is an issue with this then you can take it up with the school board (since they approved its location) and argue our case. If they decide not to remove the sign then you will be in violation every time you enter the parking lot to pick up your child - end of story.

Some food for thought - I was shocked to learn this:

Lets say you are sitting at a local all you can eat pizza place - you have been there with your family for 2 hours (making a point) - when a school bus loaded with kids pulls up and out pour 30 kids on a field trip. If you are carrying - you must remove your ccw immediately or you are in violation.

You read this right folks - even if you are there for 2 hours prior to them showing up - you are in violation for not leaving to lock up you firearm.

Does this make any more sense than a 30.06 sign blocking the entrance to pick up a child? No, but the law is the law.

Wow...this is all sorts of wrong, I don't even know where to begin.

[03Lightningrocks]

I will volunteer to be the test case if everyone on this forum will chip in for the legal fees. Sitting in jail a few days worries me not. Now for the hard part. How do I get caught carrying concealed without getting busted for failure to conceal?

[rtschl]

We all had to get the bad advice flushed out of our heads at some time. Doc got some bad advice, possibly in class, and he simply needs to be shown the way. We do have the advantage of legislators, lawyers and LEO on our board that others dont.

I am even aware of when a DPS attorney has given false information to CHL instructors. So hopefully Doc.Lonestar will reconsider the source of his erroneous information and use the many valuable members of this forum who are real experts with a long history in the RKBA fight. I know I have learned much here in the past couple of years!

Ron

[michael e]

Pasadena school distric has the sings also. Funny thing was they made people that lived across the street from the school right down the road from me park there when they tore up the street and blocked the access to there driveways. It was about 4 house before mine so I didnt have to park there but if I had I would be on the phone with them over these signs.

[dicion]

I will volunteer to be the test case if everyone on this forum will chip in for the legal fees. Sitting in jail a few days worries me not. Now for the hard part. How do I get caught carrying concealed without getting busted for failure to conceal?

Like this:
http://www.zazzle.com/texas_concealed_c ... 6335065349" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm in for $200 if you do it :)

The only problem with the shirt, is, if they ask you to leave because they say your shirt is offensive/scaring the patrons, you have to leave, as 'scaring people' is valid under 30.05. Only if they ask you to leave, or arrest you for carrying the concealed handgun itself are you protected from 30.05.

If you're going to do this, I recommend getting the lawyer beforehand, and taking them with you XD

The _BEST_ place to be a 30.06 test case IMO, would be at a gun show at a government owned venue. Then there is absolutely no 'out' for them :)
- They can't claim your 'gun shirt' is upsetting people
- They can't claim 30.05 for any other reason
- They love putting those signs up at them, and it pisses all of us off XD

I believe it would go something like this:

Officer: "Are you?" *looking/pointing at shirt*
You: "I refuse to answer that question, and would like to proceed into the show with the ticket I have paid for in this government-owned building."
Officer: "Didn't you see the sign?"
You: "You mean the unenforceable sign out front due to the exception explicitly mentioned in subsection e of the section named directly in the sign itself?"
Officer: ".... you can't carry a concealed handgun in here without me ziptying it."
You: "If you truly believe that is the law, then arrest me, as it is clear that your department is not properly versed in it, and I would love to see you properly reeducated with a civil suit."

.. then again, I frequently have notions of grandeur for 'sticking it to the man' sometimes.

[doc.lonestar]

Folks I want to just step up and openly admit that I was incorrect with the statement I made in regards to this topic.

Apparently I was given some incorrect information and I would just like to clarify after speaking with a rep at the office. After an indepth conversation on what I was taught vs what is correct I have come to the conclusion that what I was taught, in regards to this particular circumstance, was incorrect.

1 - The CHL holder can pass the 30.06 sign posted at the entrance of the school parking lot. Will only be in violation if you exit the car carrying.

2 - CHL holder does not have to leave because a school function showed up. The showing up of school field trip does not change the place into a school function.


In my defense - not an excuse because I should have used the common sense test here - these two very specific things were brought up in class and tested across the board. The answer came back from our resource(s) that my answers given were correct - I take very good notes.

Thanks again for the clarification folks.