Does "No weapons" mean "No CHL"?

[rp_photo]

I am not planning on attending this event and am thus not motivated to find out for sure, but I'm curious if "No weapons" equates to "No CHL":

http://www.29-95.com/music/story/summerfest-faq" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Since it takes place in a public park, I'm not sure CHL can be banned but you can bet these things:

Many CHL's will assume it's the case and not carry.

Those intent on commiting crime will carry regardless.

Security will not always understand the law.

[MoJo]

Unless there is a 30.06 sign in conjunction it only applies to non CHL. Some would argue it doesn't apply to anyone unless there is a statutory prohibition.

[G.A. Heath]

You say that its a public park so I assume that it is either owned or leased by a city, county, or some other political subdivision of the state of Texas. If this is the case then unless a very few/rare conditions exists then you can carry. The conditions to ban legal concealed carry in a public owned park are rare but could be caused by school activities, a professional sporting event, being leased out for an event that will generate 51% of its revenue from the sale of alcohol for on premises consumption, and so on.

[Teamless]

Many CHL's will assume it's the case and not carry.

hopefully most CHL's realize that "no weapons" doesn't refer to them, without the qualifying 30.06/51% or proper other notifications


I go to a park every weekend with my dogs (Bay Area Park, Clear Lake City) and on the sign when you drive it, it says "no weapons", and I read it, every time, and continue right on past.

[wcalvert]

Word of caution, you may run into some trouble because they have banned all liquids from entering the premises and I'll beat they will be checking bags/pockets/etc. Should be interesting.

[BrianSW99]

If it's a city owned park, they can't enforce a 30.06 sign, but if they're searching bags or wanding people as they go in you can bet you'll be denied admission if they find it.

Brian

[Bullwhip]

If it's a city owned park, they can't enforce a 30.06 sign, but if they're searching bags or wanding people as they go in you can bet you'll be denied admission if they find it.

Brian

"They can't do that" but they will anyway if they want to. Saw it at a street festival one time. No way to punish those who do it either.

[rp_photo]

Word of caution, you may run into some trouble because they have banned all liquids from entering the premises and I'll beat they will be checking bags/pockets/etc. Should be interesting.

I'm not even sure why they have the right to ban food and drink unless it's a truly private venue.

[BrianSW99]

If it's a city owned park, they can't enforce a 30.06 sign, but if they're searching bags or wanding people as they go in you can bet you'll be denied admission if they find it.

Brian

"They can't do that" but they will anyway if they want to. Saw it at a street festival one time. No way to punish those who do it either.

That's been debated on here before and my opinion is that if it's an event run by a private organization for which admission is charged to get in, they do have the right to refuse entry to CHLs even if it's on public property.

The reason is this: The exemption in PC 30.06 that says a 30.06 sign is unenforceable on government property only means that it is not a crime to carry past a 30.06 sign in those places. It doesn't say that a private organization holding a private event can't refuse entry to CHLs. Businesses can refuse service to customers for any number of reasons. It just means that if you've slipped past security without them finding your concealed gun, you haven't committed any crime.

Brian

[rp_photo]

Both from the perspective of a photographer and a CHL, these events have too many restrictions for my tastes and I choose to stay away.

[G.A. Heath]

If it's a city owned park, they can't enforce a 30.06 sign, but if they're searching bags or wanding people as they go in you can bet you'll be denied admission if they find it.

Brian

"They can't do that" but they will anyway if they want to. Saw it at a street festival one time. No way to punish those who do it either.

That's been debated on here before and my opinion is that if it's an event run by a private organization for which admission is charged to get in, they do have the right to refuse entry to CHLs even if it's on public property.

The reason is this: The exemption in PC 30.06 that says a 30.06 sign is unenforceable on government property only means that it is not a crime to carry past a 30.06 sign in those places. It doesn't say that a private organization holding a private event can't refuse entry to CHLs. Businesses can refuse service to customers for any number of reasons. It just means that if you've slipped past security without them finding your concealed gun, you haven't committed any crime.

Brian

I have to disagree with you, the law says that TPC 30.06 does not apply on property owned or leased by the state government or its political subdivisions, with a few exceptions like government meetings. It does not say that TPC 30.06 does not apply on property owned or leased by the state government or its political subdivisions, unless it is leased out to a private entity. I would go further and say that if I am prohibited by law from doing action X on my property I can not lease/rent you the property and give you the right to perform that prohibited action. If a private entity could effectively post 30.06 on government property when holding a private event you would see cities like Austin "Leasing" the entire property around their buildings to entities like the Brady campaign so that it could be posted and there would be an effective gun free zone surrounding the building, therefore making the building a de-facto gun free zone.

[wcalvert]

Word of caution, you may run into some trouble because they have banned all liquids from entering the premises and I'll beat they will be checking bags/pockets/etc. Should be interesting.

I'm not even sure why they have the right to ban food and drink unless it's a truly private venue.

They claim on their website it is a City of Houston restriction Give me a _______ break.

[BrianSW99]

If it's a city owned park, they can't enforce a 30.06 sign, but if they're searching bags or wanding people as they go in you can bet you'll be denied admission if they find it.

Brian

"They can't do that" but they will anyway if they want to. Saw it at a street festival one time. No way to punish those who do it either.

That's been debated on here before and my opinion is that if it's an event run by a private organization for which admission is charged to get in, they do have the right to refuse entry to CHLs even if it's on public property.

The reason is this: The exemption in PC 30.06 that says a 30.06 sign is unenforceable on government property only means that it is not a crime to carry past a 30.06 sign in those places. It doesn't say that a private organization holding a private event can't refuse entry to CHLs. Businesses can refuse service to customers for any number of reasons. It just means that if you've slipped past security without them finding your concealed gun, you haven't committed any crime.

Brian

I have to disagree with you, the law says that TPC 30.06 does not apply on property owned or leased by the state government or its political subdivisions, with a few exceptions like government meetings. It does not say that TPC 30.06 does not apply on property owned or leased by the state government or its political subdivisions, unless it is leased out to a private entity. I would go further and say that if I am prohibited by law from doing action X on my property I can not lease/rent you the property and give you the right to perform that prohibited action. If a private entity could effectively post 30.06 on government property when holding a private event you would see cities like Austin "Leasing" the entire property around their buildings to entities like the Brady campaign so that it could be posted and there would be an effective gun free zone surrounding the building, therefore making the building a de-facto gun free zone.

I'm not saying the event organizer can post a 30.06 and have it be valid. Even if they did I don't believe you would be guilty of violating 30.06 because it's on public property. I'm saying that as a private business they can refuse to admit you if they discover you are carrying a gun just like they could refuse to admit you if they decide they don't like red shirts. It's a different issue than trying to give notice under 30.06.

[G.A. Heath]

If a venue is open to the public you have to deny entry using criminal trespass statues, and even then you have to be very careful if you want to avoid a lawsuit. To say we don't allow red shirts would require that they enforce it with TPC 30.05 (Criminal Trespass). If they state the reason that they are denying you entry is because of a handgun, and you are licensed to carry then TPC 30.05 does not apply. To deny a CHL entry based on them being armed they would have to do so undo TPC 30.06 regardless of it being a Big Ugly Sign, a handbill with the correct language, or verbal notice using any language. To say we reserve the right to refuse to do business with anyone for any reason is one thing, to actually deny entrance for for no valid reason (invalid claim of criminal trespass) is one thing that makes lawyers earn their money. Where I work it the policy is anyone can enter the public portions of the business during regular business hours unless they have been served with a criminal trespass warning via the City Police. The reason for this is that the owners do not want to be referred to as "the defendant". To deny entry to someone and avoid a lawsuit you need a policy, a legal basis for enforcing that policy (TPC 30.05 and/or 30.06), and a means of enforcing that policy (Security, Law Enforcement, or an employee willing to risk being assaulted). To lack any of those three things will either result in people ignoring your demands and entering anyway w/o consequence or will serve as a first step in a potential lawsuit.

[speedsix]

You say that its a public park so I assume that it is either owned or leased by a city, county, or some other political subdivision of the state of Texas. If this is the case then unless a very few/rare conditions exists then you can carry. The conditions to ban legal concealed carry in a public owned park are rare but could be caused by school activities, a professional sporting event, being leased out for an event that will generate 51% of its revenue from the sale of alcohol for on premises consumption, and so on.

...can you back this up with law for me??? I live about 2 blocks from a County-owned park/walking trail...it is not 30.06 posted but there is a sign prohibiting firearms...I know city parks can't ban us but haven't found in the law that a county can't...a friend was there walking at around 11 a.m. and saw one coyote and heard another behind it drooling at his dog...all he had was a short stick...