CHL defends self and car

[srothstein]

A CHL was involved in a shootout in San Antonio, chasing the BG while both were shooting. CHL was hit in the hip, BG got away.

Full story in Express-News here: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_ ... 95959.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[JNMAR]

wow lucky guy on several levels. probably some rehab time at the shooting range would be in order.

[InfoTechCHL2007]

Just taking an educated guess, but the good guy was probably much more cautious with regard to shot placement and bystanders (near and beyond his intended target) than the bad guy.

[929bigo]

If I am the guy getting carjacked, my first thought may be to defend my property just as the vehicle owner did. However, IF I am one of the people in the parking lot who just happens to be walking nearby to or from my vehicle then I may have a different view on things. I may think "Is your vehicle worth the possibility that I or others in the area get shot to pieces in the cross-fire?" I mean, TEN ROUNDS---that's as many as 2 or3 "usual" gunfights (or so I have read). Thank God nobody else was hurt, and I pray the guy defending his vehicle makes a full recovery, but all those other people in such close proximity...well, I may have thought twice about shooting it out. I'm just sayin'....... Also, wouldn't it be lawsuit time IF you accidentely shot an innocent passer-by? What do you guys think?

[joe817]

This is a great study in what to do and what not to do.

Yes, I applaud the CHL for defending himself. BUT...

“Witnesses are telling us (the two men) dodged in and out of several vehicles, shooting,” said Sgt. Daniel Alonzo of the Police Department's robbery task force." ......"The gunfire scattered bullet casings and left dime-sized bullet holes in the sides of vehicles, turning a large portion of the parking lot into a crime scene."

I certainly would not have continued it to the point of a running gun battle. I think the CHL is VERY fortunate that no innocent bystanders were caught in the crossfire. And I think that is where the CHL erred. By turning it into a running gun battle. Of course I wasn't there and it's easy to say that, arm chair quarterbacking the incident.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[texasjeep44]

Hope the CHL holder makes a full recovery.

A few thoughts. Yes CHL holder probably needs to spend some time at the range, but first of all he needs to improve his situational awareness so he isn't caught off guard next time. I know you can't be 100 percent all the time, but we can always improve.

As far as the ducking an weaving in the parking lot during the gunfight, well I don't know. If someone is shooting at me, and I take cover behind a vehicle, but bullets are still coming my way, I am definately going to be low, and moving instead of just staying ducked down waiting for the guy to come around the front/back of the car and catch me sitting still. If when I am moving I am able to catch him and put a shot on target while he is engaging me I will.

Not being there we can't be sure how it went down, but I find weaving in and out of cars much more preferable to popping up in the same location repeatedly and returning fire from a static point.

I am curious to find out if the CHL holder was injured initially, or later on during the gun fight.

Hope like heck they catch the would be car jacker.

BTW, those do look like some pretty large wheels on that Hummer. Wonder how it would do in the woods or on the trails?

[srothstein]

I had not thought too much about this when I first posted the story. As a police officer, we are trained to look at the background before deciding if a shooting is safe or not, but the rules are different for cops. I am not sure I would be as worried about the bystanders if I were this citizen without the police training.

But as I read the comments on this, especially the comment about his moving if shots kept coming his way, I realized we are making a judgment call without full information again. There were a total of 10 shots fired, but we do not know if it was 1 from the CHL and 9 from the BG, all 10 from the CHL, or anything in between. I know I tend to think it was a balanced fight with both shooting, but the CHL might have been very good and been just trying to get away. Of course, since the BG had a car with an accomplice there, I tend to think he was running away more than shooting, but we really do not know and that is just my supposition. I can see a CHL (including myself) going after the guy if he had to pull a weapon with the determination that the BG would not get away from him. I will try to find more information, but the Express News does not generally update their stories with more facts later in a case like this - at least not hte facts I look for.

[artx]

Story has been updated with a picture - the picture shows a LEO investigating a handgun (that looks to me to be a Kahr of some type with Crimson Trace ) - so my guess is it is the CHL's handgun, since it seems upscale, and he didn't leave the scene. Doesn't fit the handgun profile of a dirtbag, but I guess anything is possible.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_ ... lArticle=y

Also I wonder if there is more to the story than simple robbery. I realize your car /truck is yours and you can do anything you want, and the type of rims on your car/truck are irrelevant to your character, but in the picture those look like some attention grabbing rims. Mistaken identity? Or just crime of opportunity?

[Oldgringo]

929bigo asks:

....... wouldn't it be lawsuit time IF you accidentely shot an innocent passer-by?

It is always lawsuit time.

[pbwalker]

This is my lunchtime Academy. I shop here at least 2 to 3 times a week. Scary stuff...

[chasfm11]

And I think that is where the CHL erred. By turning it into a running gun battle. Of course I wasn't there and it's easy to say that, arm chair quarterbacking the incident.

I guess that was my initial thought, too, but it is very possible that, having pulled his gun, it was the CHL who was pursued, not the other way around. The BG many not have intended to leave any living witnesses or he could have been so obsessed with taking the car that he was bound to do so, even in the face of a gun. As has been reported, some of the gang members are fearless even in the face of a gun.

Perhaps there will eventually be a full report of the incident. At some point in the future, would the police report from this incident be available?

[E.Marquez]

and this is just my opinion.
1st: It may have started as a property theft, but once the BG displayed and threatened another with a firearm, the situation was no longer about protecting a car.
2nd: If your not moving during a gun fight, your doing something wrong. You should be moving to gain a better position, cover, escape.
3rd: There is a lack of details from the story linked to come to a conclusion as to what really happened, or why.

On the surface, it does sound like the BG's chose the wrong sheep to carjack.

[08thunders]

I read the article and it wasn't clear who fired how many shots or who was chasing and who was trying to escape. We do know the SUV owner was shot but we don't know if the carjacker was shot. Maybe that's why he left instead of completing the carjacking.

[seniorshooteress]

First of all if I was the unfortunate owner of a Hummer and someone wanted it, with the price of gasoline now days, I would let them have it, collect my insurance money and buy something a little easier on gasoline. I think that the displaying of a weapon is what changes this opinion. I would have gotten out my own weapon fired at the BG and ran like heck using other cars for cover. The BG was most likely the chaser IMO. I think if I came out of the store as one of the innocents I would be saying OMG bullet holes. Hope the chl has a speedy recovery.

[artx]

One thing I thought was really sad from reading the mysa.com comments is how many comments said "just let the perp have the car".

Like it would be better to rely on the kindness of the criminal who is already holding you at gunpoint. And since we weren't there, and the story doesn't say, how do we know that the victim wasn't complying with the perp and the perp decided to plug the victim anyway (starting the 'gunfight').