CHL with a Felony Deferred Adjudication

[Jowade]

OK I had just turned 18 and was arrested for a stolen car. I was place on a deferred adjudication and I have since bought several guns. I am wanting my CHL and have concidered the Utah Non-resident or the Florida Non-resident. Does anyone know if. I am disqualified of if this will be possible. I was placed on deferred adjudication in june 2004 and was release in Jan2005 on a 4 year deferred. I was told by the local guy the teaches the gun course that i would have to wait for 10 yrs after i was released from DA. Is this true and if so is it the same for Utah or Florida. From what I understand Utah doesnt see DA as a conviction. Please Help me out. No trouble at all since. Arrested in 2002 at 18 and i am now 26.

[SwimFan85]

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... bility.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also you might want to check out these discussions.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2821" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33446" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Beiruty]

some will jump and clarify more.
....

I am not a lawyer.

[baldeagle]

Unless the DA has been expunged or pardoned, you cannot obtain a CHL until ten years after the judgment was entered into the record.

(4) "Convicted" means an adjudication of guilt or an order of deferred adjudication entered against a person by a court of competent jurisdiction whether or not the imposition of the sentence is subsequently probated and the person is discharged from community supervision. The term does not include an adjudication of guilt or an order of deferred adjudication that has been subsequently:
(A) expunged; or
(B) pardoned under the authority of a state or federal official.

(14) has not, in the 10 years preceding the date of application, been adjudicated as having engaged in delinquent conduct violating a penal law of the grade of felony;

If the information you've given here is correct, you would have to wait until 2014 to apply for a Texas CHL.

I have no idea what the laws for Florida or Utah CHLs are, but you can easily google them; florida concealed handgun laws and utah concealed handgun laws

Given your past criminal history, I would think it would be unwise for you to try to skirt around Texas law by obtaining an out of state CHL with the intent to carry here. Were that information become known by the state, it's likely obtaining a Texas CHL would become even more difficult. My recommendation? Obey the law, wait until 2014 and do it the right way. Convictions have consequences.

BTW, you may have already broken the law by possessing the firearms you have. You should consult a lawyer to be certain.

PC §46.04. UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF FIREARM. (a) A person who has been convicted of a felony commits an offense if he possesses a firearm:
(1) after conviction and before the fifth anniversary of the person's release from confinement following conviction of the felony or the person's release from supervision under community supervision, parole, or mandatory supervision, whichever date is later; or
(2) after the period described by Subdivision (1), at any location other than the premises at which the person lives.

[Beiruty]

If TX law, allows a convicted to posses firearms after certain time (Am I correct?) Doesn't Federal prohibits Felons from ever possessing firearms?

[baldeagle]

Looks like you can't get a Utah CCW permit at all. http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE53/htm/53_05_070400.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(2) (a) The bureau may deny, suspend, or revoke a concealed firearm permit if the applicant or permit holder:
(i) has been or is convicted of a felony;

I don't see a time-based restoration of the right. Perhaps someone from Utah can comment?

Florida doesn't look promising either - http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index. ... 06#0790.06" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(d) Is not ineligible to possess a firearm pursuant to s. 790.23 by virtue of having been convicted of a felony;

You can fill out this form to see if you qualify - http://app1.licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/f ... tions.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Keep in mind, I am not a lawyer. You should consult a lawyer for a legal opinion about the law.

[baldeagle]

If TX law, allows a convicted to posses firearms after certain time (Am I correct?) Doesn't Federal prohibits Felons from ever possessing firearms?

Again, I am not a lawyer, so consult a lawyer if you want a valid legal opinion - http://peacesecurity.suite101.com/artic ... ted_felons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - according to this site there is an exemption to the federal prohibition against felons possessing firearms - they must have had their civil rights (the right to vote, the right to serve on a jury and the right to hold public office) restored.

[almostfree]

Deferred adjudication is not a conviction. The OP is NOT a convicted felon and therefore is not a prohibited person under federal law. Once the probationary period is over and the charges are dismissed, the disqualification goes away. Additionally, a deferred adjudication cannot be pardoned and is rarely expunged. An order of non-disclosure can be obtained and criminal history information would no longer be public information. In some ways though, deferred adjudication can take away a lot of options (pardon, set aside conviction) that later down the road would be available to a person that has had a straight conviction.

I am not sure about Utah or Florida, but I do know that you would be eligible for Arizona. When I took their permit a four or five years back, the only questions they asked were the same ones found on the 4473. Texas recognizes all of the permits that you mentioned, so you would be able carry under one of those permits. Even though some may not like, there would be nothing illegal about it.

As far as getting a Texas CHL, you will likely have to wait it out. Last year the eligibilty information was changed so that it is not a conviction for CHL purposes if:

Convicted means an adjudication of guilt or, except as provided in Section 411.1711, an order of deferred adjudication entered against a person by a court of competent jurisdiction whether or not the imposition of the sentence is subsequently probated and the person is discharged from community supervision. The term does not include an adjudication of guilt or an order of deferred adjudication that has been subsequently:
(A) expunged;
(B) pardoned under the authority of a state or federal official; or
(C) otherwise vacated, set aside, annulled, invalidated, voided, or sealed under any state or federal law

If you can produce paperwork that indicates the charges you faced were expunged, vacated, set aside, annulled, invalidated, voided, or sealed, then you may be able to obtain a CHL. In this thread, one of the posters (not the original poster) was able to get their CHL because their paperwork said "set aside":

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30943&hilit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SWAMPRNR]

My first post here but your missing this part of the law.

§ 411.1711. CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS FROM CONVICTIONS. A
person is not convicted, as that term is defined by Section 411.171,
if an order of deferred adjudication was entered against the person
on a date not less than 10 years preceding the date of the person's
application for a license under this subchapter unless the order of
deferred adjudication was entered against the person for an offense
under Title 5, Penal Code, or Chapter 29, Penal Code.

This is why i have a permit from 3 other states. If Deferred Adjudication was given for anything under Title 5 or Chapter 29 Texas will not issue a permit.I was denied again last month for a deferred charge i had 16yrs ago.I still have full rites like everybody else.It was a felony conviction that was set aside with no adjudication of guilt.I paid a fine and 60 days probation that was it.Mine fell under Title 5 chapter 22. Only person that filed charges against me was the District Attorneys office. 16yrs and 3 lawyers later Texas still says no.

[Beiruty]

What was your charge?

[gigag04]

Deferred adjudication is not a conviction.

Wrong.

[Beiruty]

Doble post. Deleted

[rm9792]

Deferred adjudication is not a conviction.

Wrong.

Why do say that? It is not a conviction. I had to wait 10 years but was able to buy guns the whole time and did so. It is considered a conviction for CHL purposes but is in fact not a conviction. What would be the point in getting it if it was a conviction?

[almostfree]

Deferred adjudication is not a conviction.

Wrong.

Way to support your statements with references and prove you know what you are talking about. Deferred adjudication is not a conviction if the community supervision is successfully completed. It IS, however, considered a conviction for CHL purposes only because the CHL code specifically includes it in the definition. It is not defined as a conviction under the Code of Criminal Procedure. This means there is a conflict between the two.

Here is what the Code of Criminal Procedure has to say about it:

c) On expiration of a community supervision period imposed under Subsection (a) of this section, if the judge has not proceeded to adjudication of guilt, the judge shall dismiss the proceedings against the defendant and discharge him. The judge may dismiss the proceedings and discharge a defendant, other than a defendant charged with an offense requiring the defendant to register as a sex offender under Chapter 62, as added by Chapter 668, Acts of the 75th Legislature, Regular Session, 1997, prior to the expiration of the term of community supervision if in the judge's opinion the best interest of society and the defendant will be served. The judge may not dismiss the proceedings and discharge a defendant charged with an offense requiring the defendant to register under Chapter 62, as added by Chapter 668, Acts of the 75th Legislature, Regular Session, 1997. Except as provided by Section 12.42(g), Penal Code, a dismissal and discharge under this section may not be deemed a conviction for the purposes of disqualifications or disabilities imposed by law for conviction of an offense.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/d ... /CR.42.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is what the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals has to say about it:

"... Under the deferred adjudication scheme, a judge does not make a "finding of guilt"; instead the judge makes a finding that the evidence "substantiates the defendant's guilt" and then defers the adjudication. (8) Appellant argues that a finding that the evidence substantiates guilt is a finding of guilt. But this construction of Art. 42.12 §5 is inconsistent with our holdings on the meaning of deferred adjudication. A deferred adjudication is often referred to as a deferral of a finding of guilt. (9) Trial courts routinely say, upon adjudication, that they "find (the defendant) guilty." (10) A defendant on deferred adjudication has not been found guilty. (11) That is one of the signal benefits of deferred adjudication as opposed to, for instance, regular community supervision. When adjudication is deferred, there is no "finding or verdict of guilt."

So, tell me where in there you believe it states that successful completion of deferred adjudication is still a conviction?

This is a could explanation of the differences between deferred adjudication and straight probation convictions:

http://www.texasdefenselaw.com/recent_n ... n-and.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AWB09]

So, tell me where in there you believe it states that successful completion of deferred adjudication is still a conviction?

The CHL laws.

"Convicted" means an adjudication of guilt or an order of deferred adjudication entered against a person by a court of competent jurisdiction whether or not the imposition of the sentence is subsequently probated and the person is discharged from community supervision.