OR - CCW holder opens fire on suspects, police arrest him

[Kythas]

If it had taken place in TX. I don't think his bail would be $10,000.00

§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property

Personally, it would take more than a couple of punks stealing cell phones for me to open fire in public even if the law allowed.

Note that deadly force in defense of property is only allowed at night. IANAL, but I believe I read somewhere that the legal definition of "nighttime" in the state of Texas is 30 minutes after sundown to 30 minutes before sunrise.

[dubya]

Second time I've seen the "playing LEO" statement. Not to be a ninny but I know very few if any LEOs that would draw on and shoot at a fleeing theft suspect.

Dragonfighter, "playing LEO" has nothing to do with anything an officer would do. You might be reading something into it. It is exacltly what it sounds like; it is a person with no training, knowlege or authority attempting to wrongfully enforce the law. No one who is not a LEO should be attempting law enforcement duties. Yes, no LEO would do such a thing; officers have the training and education to respond properly.

There is nothing worse than someone playing at LEO, Doctor, Pilot or anything; playing at infers they do not have the capabilites or knowledge to do such. Someone "playing LEO" is typically reservered for very misdirected and misguided individuals who somewhat lack a complete grasp of reality. This man, well intentioned or not, had no justification in his actions.

In a way you are being a bit of a ninny (well misunderstanding my intent perhaps) ; not intending to be offensive however.
I can tell we are thinking the same thing. Respectfully.

[JNMAR]

I recall a story not long ago where a Texan let the air out of a couple of burglars looting his neighbor’s house. It was all caught on the 911 tape. They were unarmed and fleeing the seen. Although he was arrested, all charges were eventually dropped.

Yep, I think that was right down there in Friendswood if I remember correctly. As I recall he perforated em with a shotgun in broad daylight.

[Teamless]

not long ago where a Texan let the air out of a couple of burglars looting his neighbor’s house.

- the Joe Horn case

Yep, I think that was right down there in Friendswood

- Pasadena, but close enough.
http://cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/17/n ... tpop_story - 1 of many articles and videos and recordings

[gigag04]

Thread title is misleading. Should read "CCW holder agg. assaults thieves"

The guys hero complex got in the way of rational thought IMO. (getting back into my armchair now)

[SecedeTX]

This guy sounds like someone who would actually purchase one of those CHL "Badges"

Stealing cell phones is not worth me shooting someone.

CHL is not the same as getting your "super-hero" license.

[stash]

This is one of those people that probably should not have a permit or whatever they call it in Or. In this case what happened to just being a good witness?

[seamusTX]

We don't need to pile on the guy. He has enough problems already.

When I realized that no one else was going to provide security for me and my family, I paid quite enough and went to a lot of effort to provide it on my own. AT&T has plenty of revenue and managers who can decide their security policies, as do banks, grocery stores, department stores, etc. I didn't sign up to provide it for them.

- Jim

[Purplehood]

You never know what will go through your mind when you find yourself in a similar situation. He may not have had any "Cop-complex" in mind at all. He may simply have had a crappy understanding of the laws regarding the use of deadly force (look at how many versions we are seeing right here on our "informed" forum) and decided that his actions were merited.
Everytime I read a post on this forum making a valid point I try to impress it on my feeble little mind, and find myself thinking on it over and over while commuting to and from work in the hope that it sticks when the dirt hits the fan.
This guy could simply be ignorant and have absolutely no delusions of glory.
This article simply typifies to me what can happen when regular folks get inadvertantly thrown into a bad situation. Stupid things can happen for no apparent reason.

[Oldgringo]

As our esteemed colleague, 03lightningrocks once said, "...CHL is not a Batman license...".

[tfrazier]

As our esteemed colleague, 03lightningrocks once said, "...CHL is not a Batman license...".

But I already have the costume and everything!

[cougartex]

Stealing cell phones is not worth me shooting someone.

[sooeey2u]

And here he is, Mr. Witter, in full denial on video tape trying to justify his actions. Btw, judge revoked his CHL....


http://www.kgw.com/home/Man-arrested-af ... 97679.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[tfrazier]

If we all descended from apes, this guy must've done it much more recently than most of us.

He can certainly claim doing a huge disservice to all free Americans in setting himself up to be the poster child for those who wish to limit our freedom and control our destinies.

I continue to be frustrated by the fact that I have to get special permission from the State to exercise a God-given right to prepare myself for defense. I always firmly believed (and still do) that it is the constitutional right to keep AND bear arms, whether they be handguns, rifles, or swords, concealed or openly carried. It makes it far more difficult for me to convince others that this is the intent of our forefathers when people take leave of their common senses and go popping caps at the tires of fleeing burglars.

I shouldn't have to pay the state for the right to carry a weapon.
I shouldn't have to be judged and trained by the state before I, as a free man and an adult citizen of this Republic, can have upon my person, concealed or unconcealed, the means to protect myself, my loved ones, my property, and other innocents from violent criminals.

But I am a law abiding citizen (until the law becomes intolerable, that is), so I play the silly game and take classes. I train much better and more intensly of my own free will above and beyond the ludicrous minimum standards the state sets. I get fingerprinted and pay fees to the government for the "privilege" of carrying a handgun. It is something I do begrudgingly, but do nonetheless. It is akin to having to be licensed to breathe air or drink water, as far as I'm concerned.

This guy solves my adversaries' problem of having to come up with an intellectual argument against my case. All they have to do is point to him and all logic and argument over laws being preventative only for the law-abiding posessors of IQs higher than that of a plastic spoon go right out the window.

No amount of debate over the constitution, liberty, and stance upon God-given rights can compete with that.

[seniorshooteress]

And here he is, Mr. Witter, in full denial on video tape trying to justify his actions. Btw, judge revoked his CHL....


http://www.kgw.com/home/Man-arrested-af ... 97679.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This guy looks nothing like Batman, The Lone Ranger, or Chuck Norris. Trying to shoot the tires on a moving vehicle with innocent bystanders in the vacinity, give me a break. How much sniper training has he had to be able to do that with a pistol? Even LEO's don't try to shoot out tires, they lay down spike stripes. This guy should have lost his CC license. He didn't pay much attention in class to the "when to shoot" and for "what reason" parts. What a dimwit. Now the rest of us have to work that much harder to overcome the vigilante aspect of having a CC license.