CHL - gun in my car - "plain view"?

[cubbyjg]

... always wondered what a LEO would say if i were to be pulled over.

The possible answers range from "Have a nice day" to "Step slowly out of the vehicle with your hands in the air."

There is a thread on this forum about a guy who had a handgun on the seat of his vehicle while traveling through some Podunk town and was arrested and had the weapon confiscated. I can't find it now. Maybe someone has a better memory.

- Jim

I took a look at that thread and from what i can tell, the weapon was concealed by a bag until the officer moved the bag. TAM mentioned the safetypack and then i got to thinking after i posted my response regarding the triangular soft case i use. Either way, the handgun is hidden inside a case. What would the difference be in using the safetpack in regards to the law and it being concealed? Wouldnt either one pose the same risk as to what happened to the individual in the other thread Seamus brought up?

[seamusTX]

Here's the way I see it: Your or my understanding of the statutes carries no weight at all compared to a LEO's or district attorney's.

If an officer thinks that a handgun in one of those zippered pistol cases (which I have several of) is "in plain view," yer goin' fer a ride.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything. My experience has taught me that that is how life works.

I put the handguns under the front seat and don't worry about the shotguns. (I also have not been stopped in traffic since 1996.)

That episode in the other thread is an example of the authorities doing what they could get away with, because they are on salary and the citizen has to pay his lawyer upfront.

- Jim

[cubbyjg]

Good advice to always keep in mind Seamus.

[seamusTX]

Thank you. I am still not a lawyer.

- Jim

[Purplehood]

Where do you guys keep your gun, if you're not wearing it concealed when you're in the car?

Thanks!

I keep it in my center console when it's not on me.

Oh, oh! Now I know!

[The Annoyed Man]

I took a look at that thread and from what i can tell, the weapon was concealed by a bag until the officer moved the bag. TAM mentioned the safetypack and then i got to thinking after i posted my response regarding the triangular soft case i use. Either way, the handgun is hidden inside a case. What would the difference be in using the safetpack in regards to the law and it being concealed? Wouldnt either one pose the same risk as to what happened to the individual in the other thread Seamus brought up?

The primary difference is that the Safepacker is designed for rapid access to the gun, as if it were a holster. A "gun rug" like you are describing would not give you as rapid an access to the gun if it were needed. Also, the Safepacker can be secured to your seatbelt (see picture below), and removed as you unbuckle to exit the vehicle. I've even used mine to carry my gun when my back is hurting enough that I can abide by wearing a holster.

[seamusTX]

Appearance makes a difference. If it looks like a briefcase, portfolio, CD case, or purse, no problem. If it has a firearm manufacturer or common name like SKB stamped on it, that reasonable person issue becomes operative.

- Jim

[seniorshooteress]

The only place I feel is safe/secure for my gun, is on my person. Leaving it in my car, I don't like to do. If I know I have to go to postoffice I wait until a time when hubs can run in and do whatever. If I HAVE to go inside and I know it, I leave my gun at home and keep fingers x'd that I won't need it in the 4 blocks to/from or in the parking area. (I always have my pepper spray which is better than nothing.) I carry IWB 99% of the time the other times bellyband, smartpacker,fannypak,ankle, pocket or shoulder holster. When IWB I just push it over a bit if it is uncomfortable while driving. I took it off once left it in the side holder of the door and worried the whole time I was inside the post office cause I couldn't see my vehicle. That is when I decided to let hubs go to the post office most of the time. I don't go other places that I can't carry. God forbid I ever get called up for jury duty.

[Keith B]

When i was going to JSC in Houston a couple of years ago, I was placing my PM9 in a black jewelry travel case and putting it in the hotel's safe deposit box. They had them behind the front desk, and would put the box on the counter. I had the gun in hand in the lobby, but there was no way you could tell what was in the case.

[SlowDave]

My CHL instructor said that he occasionally carried in the car with it sitting in the passenger seat with his hat laying on top of it. Maybe not the best, but if it is not in plain view, it's not in plain view. Could an over-zealous officer haul you in anyway? Sure. Could he stick his head under your seat, unzip your package thing or whatever, see your gun and (wrongly) haul you in? Sure. Could he not like your tatoo and haul you in for a broken tail light that he just busted out? Sure. Not much I can do about an officer with a chip on his shoulder, but on the other hand, I've never bumped into such an officer.

I have been meaning to carry a rag or something to place over mine in the map pocket in the door. Not allowed to carry at work, so keep it in the door pocket in a holster.

[seamusTX]

Any LEO with three brain cells to rub together can find a reason to arrest you.

The first step is not giving him a reason to look for a reason. The second is not giving the DA's office a basis for charges that they can take to court.

There is very little case law on CHL concealment issues or the Motorist Protection Act. The intersection of Terry and the MPA is unexplored. I'm not planning to be a pioneer there.

Dashcams have done away with most of those "Easy Rider" shenanigans.

- Jim

[cubbyjg]

this is what i currently use. So far it has worked fine for me. But the car jacking situation TAM brought up brings up the major flaw in using something like this.

[Purplehood]

My CHL instructor said that he occasionally carried in the car with it sitting in the passenger seat with his hat laying on top of it. Maybe not the best, but if it is not in plain view, it's not in plain view. Could an over-zealous officer haul you in anyway? Sure. Could he stick his head under your seat, unzip your package thing or whatever, see your gun and (wrongly) haul you in? Sure. Could he not like your tatoo and haul you in for a broken tail light that he just busted out? Sure. Not much I can do about an officer with a chip on his shoulder, but on the other hand, I've never bumped into such an officer.

I have been meaning to carry a rag or something to place over mine in the map pocket in the door. Not allowed to carry at work, so keep it in the door pocket in a holster.

My main concern in that situation would be that of your adrenaline pumping. I don't know about you, but every time an LEO stops me I get mildly shook up. What if you had slammed on the brakes for some reason (car accident, etc.) and your weapon had slid off the seat, but you hadn't noticed it? Then the LEO walks up and ***Voila!***, you have a visible weapon in your car.

[seamusTX]

Maybe I'm overlooking something, but I don't see a good reason to have an unsecured weapon in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle in the United States. We're not playing out Road Warrior (yet), and a running motor vehicle is capable of being a multi-ton projectile with millions of foot-pounds of energy.

The downside of having a loose handgun in a vehicle is losing control of it, and those pesky concealment requirements, which now have been mentioned by several contributors to this discussion.

If your local situation deteriorates to the point of having to plan for moving firefights, you need a shotgun or rifle, both of which happen to be perfectly legal to carry openly and loaded in this great state (except for limited statutory circumstances).



- Jim

[boomerang]

The downside of having a loose handgun in a vehicle is losing control of it

Like in the infamous Miami shootout.