Legal for Police to lie?

Ol Zeke · #1

I found this on another forum and while I'm not a proponent of open carry (I don't believe it should be agains the law, however) I was disturbed by part of the comments below the video. Specifically, " .... the police are legally allowed to lie to you....".

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youtube]Bmys_9LDFec[/youtube]

While the young man was probably acting within his rights, I'm not sure it was in his best interest (I probably would have caved and shown my ID).

I do find it disturbing that Police can legally lie to an otherwise law abiding citizen, in hopes of getting something on them. Lying to an actor who has committed an offense ... could be different.

I've noticed several LEO's on the site and wondered what your take is?

The Annoyed Man · #2

I'm not an LEO, but my take is that while the videographer was within his rights, he also went into the whole thing with a massive chip on his shoulder. His video contains a comment near the beginning about "bureaucrats deciding" that cell phone usage while driving is a crime. Well, maybe that was actually voted on in the state's legislature. The dude isn't even from New Mexico, so what does he know? If they have a law against that, then it's illegal, and it isn't his place as an out-of-state "activist" trouble-maker to decide what is and isn't New Mexico law.

If my wife (who carries under the authority of her CHL) got pulled over and given a ticket, my thought would be, "well, were you guilty?"

Secondly, in the video, he doesn't identify the female driver as his girlfriend in the beginning, where it would be appropriate for him to do so. So I believe he was lying about that. I believe that he was driving around, looking for a fight.

I don't think that kind of in-your-face-activism helps the cause. It's obnoxious when gun-grabbers do it, and it's obnoxious when we do it, and obnoxiousness does not convert anybody. It only further alienates the opposition and serves to cheer up a few of the hotheads on one's own side of an issue. I just think that there are better ways of addressing the issues. Just my 2¢.

#3

The guy is one of the typical bozo's who is trying to provoke a fight with the officers. I agree with TAM that this type of action is nothing but harmful and will harm open carry and chances of getting it passed in other states.

Ol Zeke · #4

Annoyed,

I agree. He definitely is not acting in his own best interests. He obviously (and IMO 'unwisely') was looking for a fight.

But I was floored by the comment that it is perfectly legal for the police to lie about the law, in order to get what they want ... from a law abiding citizen?

I'm gonna have to ask my Son-in-law about this next time I see him.

JNMAR · #5

I have no idea what the law regarding producing your ID is in New Mexico, or even in Texas for that matter...Without a CHL and carrying, I'm saying. However right or wrong, this guy's got more spare time on his hands than I do. I'm really surprised he walked away from that encounter without taking a ride. To me showing my ID to an officer is just not that big of a deal. As a matter of fact I probably would have extended my hand and introduced myself cuz that's what my dad taught me to do from a very, very young age.

IMO both of the LEO showed abundant patients and restraint of course having a video tape running in their face probably helped with the restraint part.

DONT TREAD ON ME · #6

(b) A person commits an offense if he intentionally gives a false or fictitious name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has:

(1) lawfully arrested the person;

(2) lawfully detained the person; or

(3) requested the information from a person that the peace officer has good cause to believe is a witness to a criminal offense.

They cannot ask for your ID just because.

joe817 · #7

As a matter of fact I probably would have extended my hand and introduced myself cuz that's what my dad taught me to do from a very, very young age.

Same here!

Medic218 · #8

way to buck the system. what an idiot

Ol Zeke · #9

OK… I agree. The guy is definitely a few seeds shy of a watermelon.

But, forget the stupid video for a second.

In the text below the video it states that it is not illegal for the police to lie to you.

My question is;

Is it really OK for a policeman to knowingly and deliberately miss-state the statutes in an effort to get you comply (Do what he wants you to do)?

5thGenTexan · #10

Re: Legal for Police to lie?
by joe817 » Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:36 am
As a matter of fact I probably would have extended my hand and introduced myself cuz that's what my dad taught me to do from a very, very young age.

Same here!

Wouldn't have had the chance because I'm not STUPID enough to walk up to an officer in the middle of a traffic stop with a gun in plain sight. He was lucky the officer didn't disarm him and cuff him until the stop was concluded then try to sort out what his motive was.

Just because you can do something doesn't always make it the intelligent thing to do. Some of these Geraldo wannabes with there video cameras are not the brightest bulbs in the box. The officer has no idea of his intent, saftey of the officer and the young lady he had stopped to me would have warranted detaining the fool, at least until he could give him his complete attention. Sometimes I wish there was a law against stupidity.

The Annoyed Man · #11

jbdews wrote:Annoyed,

I agree. He definitely is not acting in his own best interests. He obviously (and IMO 'unwisely') was looking for a fight.

But I was floored by the comment that it is perfectly legal for the police to lie about the law, in order to get what they want ... from a law abiding citizen?

I'm gonna have to ask my Son-in-law about this next time I see him.

About the lying part, YES, the police can lie to you.

Watch what the LEO says at about 12:00 into the video...
[youtube][/youtube]

This is part 2 of a 2 part video series on what to say if you've been stopped/arrested by a police officer. The first speaker is a defense attorney. The speaker in the above video is an LEO. The lecture audience are law students. The bottom line is this: unless you are an obvious victim of a crime, your contacts with police officers are going to be within the context of a possible investigation into something (maybe that something might be you), and until the officer has satisfied him/herself that you are not a person of interest, every single thing you say is more likely to get you into trouble rather than out of trouble.

That does not mean that you don't cooperate with police. It does mean that it is stupid to force a police officer to focus his/her undivided attention on you unless you are dire need of that officer's help. And I say this without a trace of bitterness or rancor, because I want cops to behave this way. I think it is a more effective approach to law enforcement.

So going out of your way to pick a fight with a street cop over your rights is just plain dumb, particularly when there are far more effective — and enlightening — means of handling things after the fact.

DONT TREAD ON ME · #12

About the lying part, YES, the police can lie to you.

Sources?

gigag04 · #13

XtremeDuty.45 wrote:
(b) A person commits an offense if he intentionally gives a false or fictitious name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has:

(1) lawfully arrested the person;

(2) lawfully detained the person; or

(3) requested the information from a person that the peace officer has good cause to believe is a witness to a criminal offense.
They cannot ask for your ID just because.

Sure they can...you just don't have to give it. UNLESS - you're driving. You're required to show a valid DL on demand while driving. And, I'm pretty sure that if you don't have a DL and the ofc can't identify you, you will be arrested for "fail to display driver's license." It's a class C violation - Sure he could right a ticket, but who to?

bayouhazard · #14

It's OK for them to lie to you but the hypocrites get all huffy if they find out you lied to them.

DONT TREAD ON ME · #15

Sure they can...you just don't have to give it. UNLESS - you're driving.

You got me there.