Non US Citizen w CHL buying a gun Q?

[neilp]

I tried to buy a rifle today, the first gun I've bought since I got my CHL last year. Although I've lived in TX for over 15 years I'm still a UK citizen. I really should become a US citizen but my aversion to paperwork and forms makes me procrastinate.

Anyway the pawn shop I was at wants proof of residency for 3 months before they will sell the rifle to me. Not a problem as I can easily provide it but that means a 20 mile round trip to go back there. So are they correct? I thought the CHL meant that was not necessary. I used to carry proof of residency in case I found a got-to-have-it bargain but I took it out of my car when I got the CHL as I thought it was no longer needed.

BTW the rifle is a .22 Marlin model 60 stainless in perfect condition. It should be ideal for (I hope) getting back into rifle shooting and teaching my 13yo son.

I'm heading back off to the store, and then the range for a quick test!

[adv]

I'm a Brit with a Green Card and a CHL, and no I didn't need to show the 3 month residency when I bought my last gun - just gave them my CHL. You've proved all the necessary requirements already when you got the CHL and the FBI check should be enough. The shop is mistaken I believe but how you convince them of that is another matter.........

[boomerang]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicen ... s-purchase" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An alien acquiring firearms from a licensee is required to prove both his identity, by presenting a government-issued photo identification, and his residency with substantiating documentation showing that he has resided in the State continuously for the 90-day period prior to the purchase.

[adv]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicen ... s-purchase

An alien acquiring firearms from a licensee is required to prove both his identity, by presenting a government-issued photo identification, and his residency with substantiating documentation showing that he has resided in the State continuously for the 90-day period prior to the purchase.

That is what is required without a CHL, to obtain the CHL one has already proved that their has been continuous residency in the State for 90 days prior.

[chabouk]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicen ... s-purchase

An alien acquiring firearms from a licensee is required to prove both his identity, by presenting a government-issued photo identification, and his residency with substantiating documentation showing that he has resided in the State continuously for the 90-day period prior to the purchase.

That is what is required without a CHL, to obtain the CHL one has already proved that their has been continuous residency in the State for 90 days prior.

The CHL gets you out of NICS, not the other requirements. Depending on who you talk to at ATF, "continuous residency" is broken if you've have any trips outside the country. A DL, CHL, and passport with no outbound stamps should be enough.

[Beiruty]

I did not with my Last purchase. The seller is bit over cautious. my FFL was satisfied with a CHL. Canadian Citizen with a green card living in US since 1999.

[neilp]

I went back to the store with 3 months of utility bills to prove residency. They then said they were going to call in a NICS check .... At that point I asked to talk to the supervisor that they kept referring to on the phone. Instead they called the store manager who said the NICS was not necessary.

So I'm now the proud owner of the Marlin.

[puma guy]

I went back to the store with 3 months of utility bills to prove residency. They then said they were going to call in a NICS check .... At that point I asked to talk to the supervisor that they kept referring to on the phone. Instead they called the store manager who said the NICS was not necessary.

So I'm now the proud owner of the Marlin.

Glad you got through the transaction. I just bought myself a Model 60SS. I will have fun myself and hopefully teach my 5 grand children to shoot with it when the time comes. (oldest is just over two years old) . I sold a bunch of them in the 60's and 70's (several hundred) and had only one returned for FTE.

[Fangs]

Glad you got it, I went to buy 870 and was told that the 90-day proof of residency required 4 utility bills (One at the beginning, one at the end, and two in the middle).

[chartreuse]

Another Brit with a Green Card and a CHL here. I looked into this, when I got my CHL, and went through the big ol' PDF of regs and rulings on the ATF site, at: http://www.atf.gov/publications/downloa ... 5300-4.pdf.

By my reading of the regs, it seems that the confusion arises from folks confusing resident aliens (us folks with Green Cards who live here) and non-immigrant aliens (folks on student visas, temporary work permits etc).

- A resident alien must demonstrate that he has resided in state for at least 90 days, prior to the transfer.
- A non-immigrant alien (who is exempt from the prohibition on one of the named grounds, e.g. hunting license) must demonstrate that he has continuously resided in the state for at least 90 days immediately prior to the FFL conducting a NICS check.

Further reading suggests that a short trip abroad would break this period of residency for a non-immigrant alien, but not for a resident alien. (ATF Rul 2004-1) on p. 144 of that document.

So, on that basis, it seems to me that my CHL does double duty, both exempting me from the NICS check and proving my residency in TX for >90 days. And, indeed, that has been my experience.

Naturally, IANAL and I haven't stayed in a Holiday Inn Express for simply ages...

[cougartex]

So I'm now the proud owner of the Marlin.

Congratulations.

[ELB]

Congratulations on the Marlin! They don't make those anymore -- at least not for now, at the original factory (read it elsewhere it is closing)

Now for one of those legal trivia quirks about CHL law we so dearly love :

Mention made several times of Texas CHL proving residency, for a specific period of time in particular. It does not appear to me that a Texas CHL does that, at least not directly. When the law was first passed, six month residency was required, but since then the law has changed to make Texas CHLs available to non-residents or those intending to make Texas their residence. As a practical matter it seems you will probably wait 90 days for DPS to process your initial application but the CHL is not direct proof of this. Perhaps another indirect route is that to have a Texas CHL you must be eligible to buy a handgun under Federal law, and perhaps that means an alien must have resided here 90 days or more, but I haven't the energy to look that one up. But again this doesn't seem mean that a CHL is direct proof of the required residency period; and in any case I would think a legal alien would have more direct proof anyway, like Green Card or some-such.

In any case I was pleased to read above of the Brits and Canadian CHL holders (anyone else?) who have joined us in Texas -- at least on the forum. Feel free to take the next step. We need all the good guys and gals we can get, especially nowadays!

[tacticool]

Texas issues non-resident concealed handgun licenses, but not non-resident drivers licenses, so if a drivers license doesn't prove residency then a concealed handgun license definitely doesn't.

Congratulations on the Marlin 60. Fun gun.

[chartreuse]

Congratulations on the Marlin! They don't make those anymore -- at least not for now, at the original factory (read it elsewhere it is closing)

Now for one of those legal trivia quirks about CHL law we so dearly love :

Mention made several times of Texas CHL proving residency, for a specific period of time in particular. It does not appear to me that a Texas CHL does that, at least not directly. When the law was first passed, six month residency was required, but since then the law has changed to make Texas CHLs available to non-residents or those intending to make Texas their residence. As a practical matter it seems you will probably wait 90 days for DPS to process your initial application but the CHL is not direct proof of this. Perhaps another indirect route is that to have a Texas CHL you must be eligible to buy a handgun under Federal law, and perhaps that means an alien must have resided here 90 days or more, but I haven't the energy to look that one up. But again this doesn't seem mean that a CHL is direct proof of the required residency period; and in any case I would think a legal alien would have more direct proof anyway, like Green Card or some-such.

In any case I was pleased to read above of the Brits and Canadian CHL holders (anyone else?) who have joined us in Texas -- at least on the forum. Feel free to take the next step. We need all the good guys and gals we can get, especially nowadays!

Thanks ELB

You raise a very good point about the "intending" language and thus the CHL possibly being indirect proof of residency. That, of course, brings up further points. IMHO, the problematic word is "resident" as it has multiple meanings. In immigration law it refers to being a resident of the USA, not any particular state. So, while my green card provides proof of my lawful residency in the USA, it does not show my TX address and, indeed, I would be free to up sticks and move to another state tomorrow, if I so chose. In firearms law, however, much like with drivers licences, we get the meaning resident of a particular state. To my knowledge, there are no special documents available for lawful permanent residents which demonstrate this, other than the same documents available to US citizens, such as drivers licences etc. This is probably the reason for the awful fudge with utility bills and the like, which, in truth, prove very little.

One could argue that BATFE has overcomplicated matters (how unlike a bureaucracy to do that) and that:
(a) Any drivers license etc over three months old demonstrates compliance with the residency requirement, or
(b) The 90 day requirement for LPRs serves no practical purpose and should be eliminated.

But I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Alamais]

Congratulations on the Marlin! They don't make those anymore -- at least not for now, at the original factory (read it elsewhere it is closing)

Now for one of those legal trivia quirks about CHL law we so dearly love :

Mention made several times of Texas CHL proving residency, for a specific period of time in particular. It does not appear to me that a Texas CHL does that, at least not directly. When the law was first passed, six month residency was required, but since then the law has changed to make Texas CHLs available to non-residents or those intending to make Texas their residence. As a practical matter it seems you will probably wait 90 days for DPS to process your initial application but the CHL is not direct proof of this. Perhaps another indirect route is that to have a Texas CHL you must be eligible to buy a handgun under Federal law, and perhaps that means an alien must have resided here 90 days or more, but I haven't the energy to look that one up. But again this doesn't seem mean that a CHL is direct proof of the required residency period; and in any case I would think a legal alien would have more direct proof anyway, like Green Card or some-such.

In any case I was pleased to read above of the Brits and Canadian CHL holders (anyone else?) who have joined us in Texas -- at least on the forum. Feel free to take the next step. We need all the good guys and gals we can get, especially nowadays!

Im a Mexican with a green card, and in the process of getting a CHL, packet sent and received, waiting for a PIN.

much as the OP, ive been living here in Texas for over 20 years, ive been a Cavalry Man in the greatest ARMY in the world for 4 years active and 4 inactive, and i consider myself an American I Qualify for citizenship with being married to an America, Being enlisted, and having spent enough time in the states. But, i Really Really hate fraking paperwork and the nonsense bureaucracy that exists with getting anything legal done in the states :P